Coaching & Cocktails
Coaching & Cocktails
S5 Ep1: Reconnecting and Reflecting After 20 Years In the Sport - Coach Q & Coach T Tell All
SPECIAL PODCAST RELEASE ALERT!!!
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Way before anyone knew them as Coach Q (Qawnana) and Coach [Mama] T (Tina), these two female OG vets of the sport stepped onto the same bodybuilding stage in October 2005 at the OCB Charm City Classic. At that time neither could have imagined how their parallel journeys would intertwine over the next two decades. Their reunion on this special episode marks 20 years of friendship forged through the transformative crucible of natural bodybuilding - a relationship that has endured despite the massive evolution of the sport around them.
This raw, unfiltered conversation takes us back to the early days of figure competitions, before Instagram, YouTube tutorials, or even widespread coaching existed. The women share how they navigated their competitive careers using only OCB message boards and face-to-face workshops, trading diet tips and posing advice in a community that genuinely supported one another's growth.
Beyond nostalgic reminiscing, they courageously dissect bodybuilding's profound impact on their lives - from the physical toll (surgeries, injuries, and in Q's case, multiple cancer diagnoses) to the emotional and family sacrifices that competitive preparation demanded. Their candid assessment of how the sport has changed through social media reveals why both now find themselves disillusioned with many aspects of modern bodybuilding culture.
Yet their story isn't one of regret. Through vulnerable sharing about depression, identity crises, and family struggles, a powerful narrative emerges about resilience, personal growth, and finding purpose beyond the stage. As both women transition into new chapters - Q retiring from coaching to pursue behavioral science, Tina continuing in the sport while shifting some focus focus to equine-assisted coaching - they reflect on what truly matters after the spotlights fade and the trophies gather dust.
What makes this conversation exceptional is how it transcends bodybuilding to explore universal themes of friendship, purpose, and legacy. Whether you're a fitness enthusiast or simply someone navigating life's transitions, their wisdom about what endures when external validation falls away will resonate deeply.
Don't get weird, use your head, it'll all be OK!
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so hello and welcome to coaching and cocktail. Oh, my god, I can't even say it anymore. So coaching and cocktails, the podcast it has been, oh gosh, over a year. I'll have to go back and look at the dates. I might actually, uh, released a podcast, um, but this is Tina. I am here without Brandy. I am here with somebody super, super, super special and I'm going to let her introduce herself because I think we have a lot to talk about. So Q tell us?
Qawnana:a little. Tell me who you are. So everybody knows me as Coach Q. It is pronounced Kawana because I'm sure for the past 20 years a lot of people have probably been like how in the world do you actually pronounce her name? So it is pronounced Kawana and I am here to talk about all the things over the course of 20 years oh, my God, 20 years 20 years. This year is our anniversary.
Tina:Yeah. So Q and I got on stage in our very first shows together Together 20 years ago. Huh, what Side by side. I have the pictures to prove it. I will dig them up and I'm going to have. I'm going to have you send me your favorites and I have mine. And um, 20 years ago in October, um, it was the OCB Charm City Classic at the time, which has transitioned over the years into the Chesapeake, the OCB Chesapeake, but different promoters, different life, different everything. But we say that's our show. So hey, that's our show.
Tina:Bobby, Bobby, we are talking to you.
Tina:It's your 20th anniversary and so maybe we should be recognized. I'm just going to put that out there. Like Q and I said listen, we are too old to not have shameless self-promotion. At this point, if I feel like I deserve some recognition, I'm just going to say I deserve some damn recognition. Motion. At this point, I I, if I feel like I deserve some recognition, I'm just going to say I deserve some damn recognition. Uh, not being, you know that, that's not being full of myself or conceited in any way, shape or form, but we thought we would spend some time walking down memory lane um 20th anniversary and we've remained friends and and I'll share my perspective and then you can share yours.
Tina:But so you know, you have those people, you know those people. You know what? What's that saying? You have friends for a reason, a season and a lifetime, and I wouldn't you know, while you and I we catch up at shows, we see each other. Um, we went to a football, a Cowboys game, together.
Qawnana:Yes, we did.
Tina:So we have those connections but you know we don't, we don't hang out, we don't talk on the phone, we don't, um, we're not I'm using my air quotes those kinds of friends, but you have these connections with people and this is where I cry on this podcast all the time.
Tina:So you have connections with people that you can't really explain. It's a, it's a spirit, it's a, it's an energy and no matter it could be years before we see each other at a show and we run into each other, and it's like you're just connection. I've always felt that with you and you and of course I you know I follow things on social media and I'm sure you see each other there but there's always been this spiritual, soulful connection for me with you. So when you reached out and you know, kind of, the older we get and the more we reflect on our lives and, um, you know I think your words were you know they're, they're just people that you kind of take with you as your, your kind of legacy, or the relationships you want to remember, you know into as we get to the second half of our lives, and I agree, like that, that's exactly how I feel about you as well.
Qawnana:Yeah, yeah, I yeah, no, I mean, I can totally agree. Um, it's, it was something about even just the first time that we actually shared a show and a stage together, like literally both so ignorant to what we were about to walk into. We had so much in common that day. We both had this confidence that, like we probably shouldn't have had we both talked about, like we probably shouldn't have had we both talked about, like we we probably shouldn't have been on that stage, but we were there anyway. Like, and just like you said, every time we see each other, the hugs and the warm greetings have been consistent and they've been genuine and they've been authentic and much needed, probably on both sides, right, unspoken, just transference of energy, and only maybe the people that I've coached over the years know this about me, but I'm actually really, really introverted. And so when I go to these shows, there's this whole like emotional thing that I go to lean up to a show, no matter what the capacity is, and when I get there, there's only a handful of people like I'm hoping to see and you're on that list and again, literally only a handful of people. And so when I leave the show, also, yeah, and then if Eric is there, it's an added bonus because then I get to hug you both and I'm just crazy about you both and you know to be able to leave a show and know that I got to see my fit fam right, like I got to see my fit fam all as well in my world now, like I can go back into my little cocoon until the next time.
Qawnana:You know, um and and the other thing for me, and I'm I really pay attention when people ask me how I'm doing. I know if you really mean that question. I know. I know when somebody, when somebody asked me how I'm doing, I know whether they really mean it or it's just the customary thing to ask. And when you ask me how I'm doing, I feel like you are genuinely wanting to know how I'm doing. So I it has given me the space to be honest with you about where I'm at and how I'm doing and not just blow smoke and say, oh, I'm good, or you know half-ass. If you will say how I'm doing, you genuinely want to know how I'm doing, I do.
Qawnana:You know, yeah, I love you too. Okay, I'm going to try not to cry as to her.
Tina:Just got started Oprah episode and we're both going to cry.
Qawnana:Oh my gosh. So, um, so. So back to to to the first show. Tell me a little bit, because I've always been a little bit curious. I think I know a little bit, but I really wanted to hear it from your words. It's been so long, like what was your why? Like what was your why to step in on the stage that day?
Tina:Well, I would say back then um, my, so my bodybuilding, I guess a career wasn't a career at the time, but I started into bodybuilding in my early twenties. My, my ex-husband, was a bodybuilder. Although he never competed, he called himself a bodybuilder, um, and so he's really the one that got me in the gym and started, you know, getting me really lifting weight. So I was like 21 when we met and so I've been. You know, I was lifting, I think because genetically I'm this sort of short, stocky person. My body responded really quickly. So people just assumed, you know, female in the gym and I was sort of stocky and muscular anyway, and then the weight sort of changed and so everybody was always like, oh, you should compete, you should compete. Well, listen, back then. So we're talking, I was 21, so that would have been still the 90s 90s?
Qawnana:I don't know.
Tina:Yeah, horrible dates. Wow, it would have been like 94. And so, you know, ocb wasn't't around. I didn't know shit about. Fuck, it was all mcc. My husband and I went to body rock that was out here at bowie state back in the day, brandt, and you know all the people flying ryan, and you know unfortunately she's in prison and all those people right, and so those were what I was exposed to and I had the original Oxygen magazine and you know I don't. That was my 20s, we, we, we split up.
Tina:As I was turning 30, eric and I started dating. I was already well into like I was doing personal training on the side, doing everything else anyway. So still, people were like, oh, you should compete, you should compete. I was way into like eating and drinking and partying as much as possible in my 20s, so that was never gonna to happen. Like starving myself seemed like a fun idea, um, so really it was after I had Nicholas. Um, so I was 31 when he was born. I gained 50 pounds while I was pregnant. So I am four, 11 and a half. For reference, I weighed 175 pounds. I was as big around as I was tall, and so something kind of clicked, you know, after I had Nick, obviously I had to lose the weight, and so it was kind of the first time I'd ever put diet in right, really paid attention to my diet. I did the body for life challenge. I still have the book.
Tina:It's right behind me that you know it's still one of the best. Like the book, the process it was like real basic. Like you know it's still one of the best. Like the book, the process it was like real basic. Like you know. You got like a free once a week. Like it was it made sense. So I followed that and I did the little challenge thing. I took my pictures after 12 weeks, like I just realized that like hey, this is like such a really cool thing to see how the body reacts to like when you actually exercise right. I was like okay, cool. And then I just decided I was going to challenge myself and decide, okay, well, if this is how my body looks and when I eat right, then I will do a competition. And so I think I made that decision. And I want to say it was like May of 2005, went to my very first show in August. It was the presidential cup. I saw Doug and Stephanie compete, so we went to the same first show.
Tina:Yes, yes, you didn't win at the time, so right. So it was like Remo and like everybody. Yeah, all the people.
Tina:Yeah, and then yeah. So I had already set my sights on October. I had convinced Eric to compete too. I think his first show was actually the USBX one oh, usbx, okay, baltimore one that Brian Washington always did. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, november, I think it was like November so we both decided to, you know, compete in our first shows that year. And so my why at that? That time I think I was looking for a challenge and just to like see what my body would do, um, for that particular show, um, and to just say I finally did it after people have been telling me for 10 plus years that you should compete. And so I was like well, if everybody else says I should compete, I guess I should compete. And here I, there I go that pretty common.
Qawnana:When I ask people that's pretty common People are like people have been in my face telling me I should compete for so long and I finally was just like okay, fine. Like yeah, that's pretty common. When I ask people, they're white.
Tina:Do you know what, though? I same right and I tell people that is absolutely not a reason to get on stage A hundred percent If somebody comes and says, unless it's something you came up with on your own. So, but yeah, so we can. We can talk about how that Y has changed over the last 20 years.
Qawnana:Sure, you do better. So what was yours? Well, so I, I've been an athlete my entire life, from, literally, I think, five, six years old, doing little league chair and all the things. Um, I was a track and field athlete and I was already lifting weights. I was lifting weights in junior high school. High school and eating like my mom couldn't keep food in the house but because my metabolism was just burning it. So I, I, I was a powerhouse because I was a sprinter and I noticed very quickly that my body was responding to all of this.
Qawnana:And also, I don't remember how I got my hands on a fitness magazine, especially in the hood, right, and it could have been one of the football players, because we lifted weights with the football players. But, needless to say, I was intrigued by the fact that bodybuilding included women, and at the time it was just bodybuilding, there was no other category. And I was like, oh, I want to do that. So I wanted to be a bodybuilder since I was a kid, I want to do that. And I remember telling my classmates like I'm going to be a bodybuilder one day. Now, I'm not going to just be a bodybuilder, but I'm going to be a really good bodybuilder one day.
Qawnana:Not only am I going to be a really good bodybuilder one day, but I'm going to end up in one of these fitness magazines one day. I had said all that and then what had happened was what had happened was I joined the army, I got married, I had a family and then my sister, who's 10 years younger than I, am her junior year of high school. I took custody of her and moved her here from Ohio and we had just finished. She was a cheerleader and, by the way, I did all the things cheer dance track, like when I say I was an athlete, I was an athlete. Well, she was also a cheerleader and I remember her going from junior year into senior year and we were having just this moment. And this was my way like, because we're so far apart in age, I'm finally getting to bond with my sister over something. And it was senior year and I got to share with her, like, all my stuff. So we're going through all of my old stuff and I pull out my old yearbook and in the yearbook it says I can't wait to see you on the bodybuilding stage. I can't wait to see you at the Arnold Classic. I can't wait to see because, you know again, ocb didn't exist, so it was all NPC, ifbb. I can't wait to see like you're going to be the greatest bodybuilder ever. And you were like the bomb athlete and blah, blah, blah and all the things. And I looked at her.
Qawnana:It was in that moment, like it was like the hairs on the back of my neck literally stood up, tina, and I got really emotional and I looked at her and I said I did not do what I said I was going to do and I one thing that I'd like to do is do what I said I was going to do. And I looked at her and I said I have sacrificed so much, like my entire life, and at the time I had even sacrificed the career that I wanted to have, right, so I I've given up a lot of my hopes and dreams. And I was like I just feel like I need to do this because it's the one thing that I don't feel like I have to alter the rest of my life to do, and I don't feel like I'm going to hurt anybody doing this. And even if I only do it this one time, I can at least say that I did it. I can at least say that I did it. So also in May of 2005 was when I made that decision of 2005 was when I made that decision and I just, I just my training, because I too was already also a personal trainer.
Qawnana:I was, you know, knee deep in fitness at this point because my daughter was born in 2000. I had, by the time I had her, I already was in the gym, working in gyms as well as in the military, and like I was juggling all the things right, as we both, as we both were, and um, and then, of course, you know, I had my son and I was like, all right, we're gonna do this. So so I did. And you know, just just for those who are going to watch this, you and I did this with no social media. I don't know about you, but I don't even think that I had found the message boards, because OCB was only like two years old by the time we stepped on the stage. It was still very fresh and figure was also still a very fresh category. Up until that point, I was still following all the women bodybuilders and the fitness competitors. I was following them and I was following bodybuilders.
Qawnana:And then, when figure came out that was that was why I chose figure, cause I'm like I like the way she looks and I, I, I feel like I could do that. And you know, in my mind the epitome of figure was all right, I got that like to me and so, yeah, but like no resources, it was like, all right, let me go to this show and see what this is about and make sure, like I at least know what I'm doing when I get to the first show and we watched Stephanie Miller do a clean sweep at that show and I remember printing because, again, this internet and all the technology. So I remember printing her picture out from the OCB website and laminating it and sticking it on my mirror and I was like, all right, so this is what they, this is what they choose for first place, okay, bet, right. And and I literally looked at that picture almost every day and I and I trained and I dieted and dieted and trained, and again, just working with what I got, which is why that ended up kind of being my, my business model right, right, work with what you got.
Qawnana:And and then you know, we, you and I both show up on stage together, which, by the way, it's so funny because the picture of you and I standing next to each other, I'm towering over you and I swear you're 4'11 but I'm 5'3. But you had like they needed a category, they needed a height class just for like you. So like you, you know what I mean. It's like all of us in the short class.
Tina:And then Tina I can't help so fucking. Although I think at the time I was actually still five foot I, I didn't shrink a half an inch until I was so much later about 40. But so I actually was on the OCB chat boards. I don't remember when, I don't remember when the boards actually came about, but I like the time.
Qawnana:Everything's a little fuzzy for me and I think they came it came a little later, I want to say maybe a year or so later okay, I remember being on the OCB chat boards.
Tina:I remember going to um the workshops that Matt, matt and Remo and Sully put on. Sully was one of our first Eric and I's first coaches. So hey, sully, you need to have us on your new YouTube channel so we can all have a reminiscing session. It'll be super fun. But yeah, you're right, like I tell people all the time like back then, all we had was the OCB chat boards and more or less we would just like post. Well, here's what my workout was today. Here's what I ate today. Like it wasn't I could even name, like it was like you and me and Joe Franco and Matt Sheffley and Rima, sully, stephanie and Doug. Stephanie and Doug. Will Usher was on there. I'm pretty sure Marshall was on there at the time. Marshall was on there.
Qawnana:Yeah.
Tina:All the.
Qawnana:OGs yeah, all the OGs. And what I loved about the message board was, literally, we were swapping and sharing information. We were sharing information. It wasn't like this oh, I learned this secret and I'm in the industry when there were no women coaches and men were forced to try to figure out how to coach us, especially when these new categories came out female bodybuilder and nine times out of 10, knock it out of the park. Because it's what about size, density, symmetry, leanness, like oh right, the rules still are the same whether it's male or female in bodybuilding. But when you're talking about figure and bikini and all these other memories, like I don't know what to do with that, and a lot of figure competitors were were in fact being, you know, coached and trained like bodybuilders.
Tina:Because, well then, we know, and everything we did was a bro diet because nobody knew any different, right? Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't eat carbs for days and days on end and would have like one meal, like a, like a meal and a banana. God bless, sally. But you know, back then there were no macros. Like you were just following me.
Qawnana:Yeah, yeah, what's a macro? Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, definitely wasn't doing. And here's the. I actually was my own coach, and when people ask me that question, like, why didn't you hire a coach? Some of it was money related and some of it was that I genuinely wanted to learn. So this is where the science geek comes out.
Qawnana:I was so intrigued and fascinated by the human body and how, how it can change and and I was just like I want to learn myself. I want to learn this on my own, like my body is doing these changes and I'm putting these pictures together and this is this is extremely, like, mentally stimulating for me. I want to do this on my own. Um, and it wasn't that I couldn't be coached. I just told you I'd spent my whole life being an athlete, so I've been coached my entire life, so I absolutely could have been coached. But I just thought like what better way to learn how to bodybuild than to learn how to do this for it? Really, it was me being selfish. I was just like this is me, this is all me. This is the one thing that I get to have to myself, and everybody else gets to have the rest of what's left of me, but this part belongs to me and yeah, and my ex-husband was actually on those message boards a lot. He'd be on there more than me and he'd come to me and be like hey, so I just read about this supplement and maybe we should research a little bit more. All the things. He'd come and give me all the tea, right, all the things. He'd come and give me all the tea. And that was the beginning of the beginning for the both of us.
Qawnana:And I don't remember a lot about the backstage experience that day in our first show, but what I did remember was I remember standing next to you a lot, and it wasn't until later, as I was understanding the science behind bodybuilding, that they were really comparing the two of us because we had similar bodies. We had so that's, it was all that ass, all that ass. That's the one thing you and I had in common. Even if I'm taller than you, we literally had the same body type. And what's crazy is, I don't think they really knew how to judge that. They did not know how to judge that, and I don't know about you, but my feedback used to always be you need to bring down your glutes, you need to bring. You need to lean out your glutes and I'm like did y'all not see the vein running up the side of my ass? Like I'm? How much more leaner can I possibly get?
Tina:right. No, my feedback was always I was too big for figure. Yeah, I got that, as I was so blocky blocky, which is why I decided to do bodybuilding in my second season, because everybody said I was too big for figure, even though it was kind of like I fucking hate this and I don't want to do it, but I'll do it anyway, because I'm tired of the judges telling me I'm too big for figure.
Qawnana:I did it once, got a pro card and then I was like that's enough for me and I'm going back and I'm going to prove to you that I can do figure yeah that was why I stayed in figure as long as I did, because I was just like no, I've already had to literally shape and redefine this body to fit in this, in this mold, and I'm like you was just like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show y'all that because it's called figure. For god's sakes, it's called figure. When do we not bring a figure to the figure stage?
Tina:In my mind that's just on our presentation too, which I always thought was the most fun part Me too Of the whole thing getting to do the routine, me too.
Tina:Although I'll admit that if you fast forward 20 years later, I am so thankful that all they do is 10 seconds. Get your ass on, take a picture, go the fuck home, because, sorry about my language, I'm like I can't sit here and watch 200 one minute routines well, now we've gotten yeah, because we got more categories now, but also you, you and I, you and I.
Qawnana:Again, I go back. We come from an era where showmanship was important and it was artistic and it was just still able to display our physiques, but it gave, you know, people to spend all this money to come see us. So so it was a little entertaining. And then there, then there came this moment and I don't know when the moment happened. I feel like it was like 2014, 2015, where the routine started to get a little bit too saucy for my plate and I was just like you know what.
Tina:The first time I saw a girl slide across the stage on her knees like she was in a flash dance, I was like what, what?
Qawnana:or yeah, yeah, that's when I, that's when I really lost my, my, my taste for um, that was when I lost my taste, that when they started, when girls started forgetting that and the guys I'm not gonna blame this all on the girls, but you know, I'm because I'm a I'm a female bodybuilding coach I lean heavy on the girls.
Qawnana:I give them a hard time, but the guys, they, they do it too. They coming in saint chippendales, but you know they thought it was and I'm like, okay, I'm. I am also now okay with the 15 second hit strike a pose in to house music and get up off the stage'm. I am also now okay with the 15 second hit strike of clothes into house music and get up off the stage. I am. I am now also okay with that because, also, I don't want to leave this show at 11 o'clock at night. No, no, there used to be some long nights and I don't know about you, but the next day I used to feel like I've been hit by a Mack truck every single time and I tell one of the things I tell people.
Tina:Now that was so. I'm like, listen, do not come come at me complaining about how long the show is and when you didn't have to get there till one and you're in, the show's done at five or six, so listen our show started at like eight o'clock in the morning. We'd get this. Thank God they started doing away with the intermission. The show was small when we still had a three-hour intermission what three-hour?
Qawnana:what are you?
Tina:gonna do for three hours. Then the night show starts. You don't get out of there till 11, 12 o'clock at night and everything's closed and all you want to do is go home and take a shower and go to bed. And then the next morning, like you said, you just wake up like you got hit by a truck, like I'm like thankfully they're not doing that anymore, but I'm like, don't complain to me about it yeah, don't, yeah, don't, yeah, yeah.
Qawnana:Ironically, um, after I did that first show, I, I, there was something that clicked in me. It was like and I don't even remember if I'd even gotten any judges feedback yet, I just remember getting off the stage and I was like I feel like I could, I feel like I can make a major change in my physique in four weeks. And so I did another show, I did Blacksburg four weeks later and put the pictures side by side. Blacksburg was what what bit me side, blacksburg was what bit me. It was Blacksburg.
Qawnana:Once I saw the huge change and Matt Shepley came up to me and he said I don't know what you did, but I noticed a significant change in your physique just in a month. I just saw you a month ago. Yeah, and that was the thing that used to creep me out about him is that he paid attention to everything and then he'd like pull me to the side and quietly like tell me something that he knew. And I'm like where I didn't even know you were there. I didn't, I didn't, didn't even know. For a long time, I didn't even know who he was. I just knew he was around all the time with that camera and he was just quiet, right. But he just pulled me to the side and he'd just say something and and I was like, okay, all right, this is my, this is my jam, this is this is my thing, this is it. Here we go, here we go. So I, yeah, I, I. Here we are 20 years later, 20 years later.
Tina:So, let's real quick, just kind of give a brief. Okay, so how many shows have you done so just for reference, like we don't have to do our whole history, but like how many shows have you done like kind of what's your honestly history from then till now?
Qawnana:I what I? What I will tell you is I don't know how many shows I've done, because I've done that many, um, but I will tell you is I don't know how many shows I've done because I've done that many, but I will tell you that I did earn my pro card in 2007. So it started in 2005. And in 2007, at the Presidential Cup, I won my pro card. I also that year got my national qualification with NPC. So at the time, you know, I had this national qualification with NPC, but I also had my pro card with IFPA is what it was called at the time.
Qawnana:And for me it was. I knew that by dibbling and dabbling in the NPC world. I knew that those girls weren't natural. But if I was going to step on the natural pro stage, I needed to step up my game. Like, obviously I don't want to go spend all this money to lose, but I also was very mindful and realistic with my expectations that I might not place. It all was about placing it in PC versus winning, because there's 5,000 girls in your class, right. So I challenged myself on the national level so that I could be a top contender on the pro, on the pro circuit. Um. So, from 2007, all the way up until 2013, 2014. I competed as a pro 2013. And actually I'm sorry, no, it was 2013. 2013 was my last show. May have actually been 2014. God is so long. Anyway, long story short.
Tina:I went into retirement.
Qawnana:I did a lot of shows, went into retirement and then I came out of retirement three years ago and the plan was to go back to figure and to go back to the OCB. That was the plan go back to figure and to go back to the OCB. That was the plan. And in the middle of coming out of retirement and training and prepping, I found out I had breast cancer. And I knew immediately that, number one I needed to finish what I started. And number two I was going to have to make an adjustment and really fast to my plans to finish what I started. And number three this was going to be the final curtain call, like I knew it.
Qawnana:So I ended up switching a bikini, going to MPC and six weeks from the time that I got my diagnosis to the time I hit the stage, so I was already in prep, right Like weeks and weeks and months already in prep, but at six weeks out from the show I've got this diagnosis and had go to then. And something I had never done before was I hired a coach so I had to get him on video and tell him how we were going to do this, which he didn't like that very much that I was telling him what we were going to do, but I think he had forgot, like who he was coaching, who pays the bills, yeah and so anyway. So we did that. I went to Charlotte and, you know, brought home some first place hardware, got naturally qualified in the three weeks later, went and had a double mastectomy.
Qawnana:So I don't know how many shows I've done, though, because I had done so many and, like you, starting out hitting the ground running, there were a lot of shows in those first, like five, six years, just back to back to back to back shows, and it wasn't until much later that I started kind of tapering off and not doing as many, but I just stopped. I stopped even keeping count, I stopped writing it down, I stopped, I just stopped. I was just like you know what I'm just, we're just going to go, we're just going to. So you may have an answer to this question.
Tina:I do, because my journey was a little different, I guess. So I actually I mean, I actually did sit down at one point and wrote them all down for my, just to put them on my website. It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. I think it's 12 shows, if I just counted them correctly. Yeah, I, you know, I went out like gangbusters. So when, uh, and did two shows the fall of 2005, two shows the spring of 2006, two shows the fall of 2006, and which is another thing, when you know better, you do better. I absolutely won't let my thoughts beat that match. Right, you get, yeah, uh, a season, yeah, it was even too much in my, in my opinion and yeah, every two years. So it's we do spring, we do fall, we take at least 18 months in between. That's my recommendation.
Tina:So, and the reason why is so, I think I got the bug for the wrong reasons. A lot of unhealed childhood trauma reasons. Right, I got the bug because I got attention and I did really well straight out of the gate and so I was chasing that. Doing well and getting praise and being popular is actually not the word I want to use here, but being recognized, being very much recognized. Yeah, um, I was Tina the figure competitor, even though I had a little person at home, I was raising in a career and everything else, like, I put my entire identity into this in a in a very excessive and not healthy way, um, and so did Eric. We were competing together, right?
Tina:So it took, you know, I did that two to you know, like six shows in a year and, um, I was having all this pain, um, all this like joint pain and stuff, and so, in like January of 2007, I finally went to the doctor, for I was already planning to compete again in 2007. I didn't know better yet, um, and found that I had, you know, torn the labrum in my left shoulder, torn my right bicep in my you know, in my elbow, so I had torn basically the bicep in both places. Um, so I spent all of 2007 having surgery because I had to have separate surgeries, rehab, and then after that I went into a really severe depression. I gained a ton of weight because I was so all or nothing at that I could no longer get the attention that I wanted, or you know cause Tina the figure competitor suddenly went away and I'm not competing, and so I'm not, you know these are. I'm in a much better place now, but this is the reflection that I've had to do.
Tina:You know, over the years I was still competing so severe depression, like literally couldn't get off the couch for days, kind of thing, and that was most of 2008. And I finally, I think something just in me clicked one day and I was like you, you like this got to stop, like I still have a little person. I still got, you know, work like things like this can't happen. And so I slowly started, you know, bringing myself out. I wouldn't even go to the gym. I was so embarrassed to go to the gym because I'd gained so much weight, because, again, I was Tina, the figure competitor at the gym. I looked different than people are going to think less of me, right? And so I, you know.
Tina:So 2009 was kind of my comeback year. I didn't look my best, but I was just really excited to get back on on stage and sort of having overcome that depression and the injuries and all of those things, and I and I, it was, that was the, all of those things, and I and I, it was. That was the. That was the change for me because I had to fight so hard to get back on stage. From the injuries, from the depression, from the weight gain, you know, just from everything that I realized it was, I was no longer in it for the praise and the accolades and the and chasing the, whatever I was chasing, the, the challenge of whatever it is I had to overcome with every single prep from that moment forward.
Tina:Right, I won't say that it didn't matter if I didn't win, but it didn't right, like I was like right, I stopped throwing, you know, feeling like I had somehow not one because and I had injustices, because this person placed ahead of me, yeah, because there was plenty of that Right Like, yeah, plenty of that to go around, and I just realized, like no, like I really am doing this for me and I really am just trying to be better every time I get on stage. And and for me and I tell this to my clients a lot too it's not always that I even that I look better when I get on stage, cause at that point every season I had some kind of challenge I had to overcome. My life was different. My little person was having some challenges, right Like you know, there was just so much going on that I just did the best I could for that prep for that show and I brought on stage the very best that I could, even if that best was unrecognizable to some other, best that I had done, right and so so then I I really was just doing it for the challenge of it.
Tina:That even that, I think in some ways, you know, uh took on its own unhealthy uh obsession. Um, some of that then started turning into a means to avoid some things that were going on at home. Right, um, and Eric and my husband and I have a wonderful marriage but, um, like I said, we were really struggling. We had some family issues going on at the time with our son, you know. There was, there was a lot of stuff going on. We became Eric and I sort of became this couple that competed together and lived together but weren't together, like but it was almost like whose gym time was more important, who's like? You know, if you get a call from the school, you know, oh, I'm the one that always has to go right, like your gym so then it just you know.
Tina:So, yeah, the reality is like, you know, my, we were avoiding like having a healthy marriage and, you know, trying to be there for the kid and like all of these things. And so it was funny, in 2012, we were both prepping to or no, we had. We both competed in 2012. That was the last year I competed. It was like around the end of that year we were both beginning to prep for 2013. And I remember we had gone overnight somewhere for like a New Year's Eve party. We came home that so it was like January 1st 2013. And I think we were sitting in the kitchen and we were both just like something just clicked and I think we looked at each other and and we were both just like something just clicked, and I think we looked at each other and we were like I was like do you want to do this anymore? Not our marriage, I'm competing. And we just looked at each other and we just said we're done, we're done.
Tina:And I never once had a regret. I never once, you know, looked back and thought I wish I had or not. But so in that timeframe for me and the, you know, I had the that period off? I actually did not. So I got my bodybuilding pro card in the one show I competed in. And I just tell people I I won because I was the least fat on stage that day, like nobody else showed. I mean, there were like three other people that showed up and it just, you know, sometimes because you're the, you're just the least of, yeah, you're the best of the worst.
Qawnana:This is what.
Tina:I like to say, yeah, I hated that whole prep. I didn't want to do it Right. So, so, honestly, so everybody that's chasing pro cards and stuff, like I mean, good fine, even though I tell everybody, just stop doing that. But I didn't care, there was nothing about that pro card that meant anything to me, because it wasn't what I wanted to do in the first place. So I got that and then it took. I got my figure masters pro card at the OCB Atlantic Super Show in 2009, um, so I finally got my figure masters pro card right. So that was three years later. And then I didn't get my figure figure open pro card, pro card until 2011, and that was with the wmbf yeah, I remember that I was there just introduced uh, fit body, the body.
Tina:Yeah, god bless you. Thank you so much for my physique, because then yeah, because you knocked me out and I could do uh, I could do the um women's physique, which wasn't a thing at the time poses. Yeah, he's what WMBF? So yeah, that year I got my WNBF figure pro card, my fit body pro body yeah, I remember that and then I judged that show.
Tina:Yeah, 2012, I competed in both as a pro. So 2012 was my first year competing as a pro, as a pro, and the last year I ever competed. And because I said I did it all, right, Right, I did, like now, what I want to show as a pro, I, you know it's like so I did. I did all those things and the other thing and yeah, I just I um, I've talked about this in a lot of our other podcasts, but one of the really hard things for me like I, I suffered from binge eating disorder really hard things for me. Like I, I suffered from binge eating disorder.
Qawnana:Uh, I, my disordered eating stems from a lot of things, but competing exacerbated.
Tina:Yeah.
Qawnana:Yeah.
Tina:Uh, so I would, you know the ridiculous bro diets leading up to the show. And then I was the girl that you, I mean, like I had a, you know, a house full of food. My suitcase was full of food backstage, like you. Just you started like the minute you got off stage. So I would, I mean, I was like blowing up 20 pounds within days after like every single competition and it wasn't until that was like one of those things that you know, I feel like I had overcome so many challenges physically, mentally, throughout my competing process, but I'd never tackled having a healthy prep and having a healthy reverse, because reverse dieting wasn't a thing back then. You just started eating and stopped going to the gym. Everybody said take a week off, eat whatever you want. That is literally the advice we got.
Qawnana:That's literally the advice people were giving.
Tina:Worst advice on the planet. So I did that and it wasn't until 2011. I worked with another coach who gave me he actually gave me a meal plan, but I flexed it on my own. So I had already started like learning about macros and all of this stuff back then and I was like, well, do I really need to eat a sweet potato? Maybe I'll eat this, right. And so I did that. I flexed my way through my whole diet, looked the best I'd ever looked, felt the best I'd ever felt. That literally was my best conditioning ever. And then, after the show, because I didn't feel so deprived, because it was the first time I didn't feel deprived, because I just sort of allowed myself to eat, like know kind of thing, I didn't binge. After the show, and so, because you weren't depleted I wasn't, I mean, I mean I was depleted but I wasn't deprived right like yeah yeah, you didn't suffer yeah and so by 2012 I had figured, figured that out, I had, I had a healthy relationship with food.
Tina:I had a healthy relationship with my body. I, I won, you know, I won a title in a pro show. And then I was like and then we had to go to therapy for a year afterwards. I mean, literally, we went to family therapy. Yeah, because my son therapy is a good thing was 12 when we stopped competing and our family had the. The reality is, our family suffered because eric and I competed for 12 years. That is the whole heart reality of it yeah, because it's a selfish sport.
Tina:Um, there's a lot of good that comes with it, but there's a whole lot of bad that comes with it when you don't do it in a healthy way, and most people don't, um, so, yeah, so, and eric did it. Uh, he got back on stage and I'm looking at my wall because I have a picture of him so in 2018. So he came into retirement too. Um, because he had, uh, you know, he had a full shoulder replacement, yeah, year, but he decided he was going to do it one more time and he came out of retirement in 2018 and won a whole bunch of stuff with his, you know, after a shoulder replacement, and then, yeah, I remember that, because I also judged that show too.
Tina:I remember that yeah, so a little bit you know different, you know you.
Qawnana:You brought up some very, um, interesting points, um, so, although my why started out to be that it did in fact change, uh, for me and you talk about like just life taking a turn, and I will tell you and I had to admit this to a therapist that bodybuilding became more of a escapism for me. It started out as something that you know, a childhood dream I wanted to fulfill, and it immediately became an opportunity for me to run away from pain. Childhood pain, marital pain, pain, work pain, you name it. All the pain, um, and it was.
Qawnana:I was very successful at being able to, um, disassociate. Oh yeah, I was the queen of disassociation. And, on the same token, I really think bodybuilding saved my life because, you know, out of the four cancers I've had, three of them was during bodybuilding. And had I not been so in tune with my body and knowing something is wrong, I probably wouldn't be here to have this conversation with you about 20 years of bodybuilding. Yes, and had I not been so diligent about working with myself right and taking control over my physical space, I would not have had the balls to advocate for myself the way I have with these doctors who like to try to gaslight and play in my face.
Qawnana:So you know, I think that I think people's lives change over time. I think that there is a dark space in this sport of bodybuilding that even if you don't you intend to be there, you end up there in some capacity. Some, some darker than others. I, I would. I would find it very hard to believe that there is one person on the planet who's actually experienced bodybuilding and hasn't hasn't been in the dark room at least once. Because when you are in that place of depletion, that is when you are really starting to tap into your spiritual space and you are figuring out and learning a lot of the, let's just say, the blinders come off.
Tina:You have to face those things because you are, as Brene Brown says, right literally face down in the arena and it's why some people are successful in the sport and some people are not. Because if you're not willing to take the, to take the blinders off and see the dark stuff, right, then you don't make out of the dark stuff. I tell you what?
Qawnana:uh, I am even willing to admit that egoism is the reason why I stayed in for as long as I did. I probably should have threw my hat in the ring a long time ago and somewhere in the universe it was just like oh, so you don't want to face these problems? You got sitting in front of you. Okay, go ahead and do that show. I'm going to show you an experience you've never had before, and that experience was the day that I placed next to last, and it was the first and only time that it ever happened to me. And I'll be honest with you, I did not know what to do with that. I was just like what the hell just happened? And I hadn't accepted and acknowledged that leading up to that particular show.
Qawnana:Well, first of all, earlier that spring, I had just dealt with colon cancer, find out, I had early stages of colon cancer, was in the middle of prep and had to have a colonoscopy Y'all a colonoscopy like two weeks before the show. So talk about placing with perspective, right, that was the first time. I was like all right, I placed fourth, Okay, cool Cause I probably shouldn't have did this show in the first place. It was really more about finishing what I started. I'd already spent all this money. I did all this prep and also, just like I was blindsided, like I was not expecting that diagnosis. Luckily for me, it was early, they got everything and everything was good, but I was shocked. I was in shock and so I did the show anyway. And I remember I remember Will Usher and someone else it was a woman, it was only two people who looked at me and were like you're not okay. And so that was the first time that I'd actually done a show and I wasn't good at hiding that. I wasn't okay Because I got to be somebody else at these shows, because Q is not doing this, I'm not getting up there doing that, like who I am off the state, like I'm low-key, am not doing that, like we're not doing that. So I created somebody else to go do that and we do it and I get off the stage and it's mom, we're out of cereal. And I'd go back to my regular scheduled program. And let me tell you something everything that I escaped to prepare for that prep was waiting for me when I got off stage every single time. So I always would tell my clients whatever you running from honey, you better fix it because it'll be right there arms open wide when you get off the stage.
Qawnana:And it was something that was happening in my marriage and it hit me hard. It hit me like a ton of bricks and emotionally it was something that was happening in my marriage and it hit me hard. It hit me like a ton of bricks and emotionally it did something to me, but my body wouldn't respond Like normally. My body would respond to the prep and I'd do really well and I'd go. You know, business as usual. But this was the one time my body didn't respond well.
Qawnana:Everything was going wrong my wig, which I normally didn't wear. I had this point. I had already ditched the wigs, but something was like put on a wig and then I put on the wig and I was like I hate this wig and the wig sucked. Luckily for me, I had on a wig because the person who designed my suit did a shitty job and it was the first time I'd spent that much money on a suit. And I put the suit on the day of the show and the tops was popping open, so I had to take the wig and part it down the middle and hide my chest right. It was just all this stuff, tina. The suit wasn't glued down to my ass, it was just so much stuff.
Qawnana:It was the universe saying. The universe was like girl, I told you to quit, I told you to retire, so I didn't, I didn't listen and I went to Atlanta and I did that show and I placed second to last and I was just like, well, I guess this is the end and let me go home and deal with my stuff. And it took me some years to deal with that stuff. And you know, if you're alive, you're still dealing with stuff. And I had said to myself when I came out of retirement really for me it was just want to know what it's like to be a bodybuilder and not be responsible for other stuff. The kids are grown, I'm not married anymore, it's just literally me and that's it. I hadn't even had Paisley yet. It was just me, me and work.
Qawnana:And so I was like, because it was such a lifelong dream of mine as a child, I'd love to be able to have just this one time, even if it's just this one time of knowing what it feels like to do my childhood dream without having to juggle all the other balls in the air. The experience was different and even with the diagnosis the experience was different. I was trying to people but oh, let me be a part of a team and let me go people, cause I'd never done that before, like just trying to give myself stuff I thought I deserved. But I don't. I don't regret one moment of that journey, the good, the bad, the ugly and the indifferent, and I I absolutely can agree with it.
Qawnana:It wasn't the attention part for me, because actually I had extreme stage fright. People didn't know that Cause, again, I'm disassociated Like I would I'd be somebody else. So when people were like, oh, you're known for your showmanship, I'm like, well, thank you, cause that wasn't me up there, that was somebody I created. Like I created a whole nother persona to get up there and do the things that I did. But honestly, I think you and I, the one thing you and I did both have in common was that, no matter what we looked like, we had confidence when we got on stage and you couldn't deny us that we weren't shown, we weren't expecting to have the best physique on stage, but what you wasn't going to do, no, you weren't going to outperform us.
Tina:No, ma'am, no ma'am. Like, honestly, the stage part was my favorite. I, I am stage fright. I used to be. Well, I will say I no longer say I'm an extrovert. I mean an extrovert. I guess I probably still am, but I'm an extrovert that really needs breaks, right, Like I can't, like I, I enjoy peopling. For a little bit I enjoyed a whole lot less than I used to. I was a, I was an extrovert's extrovert back in the day, Like that was just my thing. Yeah, I think I just the whole thing. Now I'm just exhausted and peopling and I'm just. You know, peopling is hard and it takes a lot to get me out of the house and go do people stuff, Right, it's like the animal stuff, Um, but but the stage part for me was honestly the the the most fun. But you know, if I really wanted to, you know, think, you know, really get insightful, and I've had to do so much work, you know, just childhood trauma Right.
Tina:And so in the in all the years of you know, doing, doing all of that work, um, I don't have, I don't have any regrets, um, for, for anything that I I did, you know, I'll be honest and say there's one thing that really, you know, I don't think this isn't a regret necessarily. It's something that I have thought a lot about over the years and having to do with my family and I had a regret, and I try not to have them, because I think every regrets are really just lessons that you learn, right, and so I think they're a bad thing.
Tina:Right, I sacrificed so much time with my family that I can't get back and I truly believe in all the kind of like uh self-reflection that I've done. That some of my uh little person at the time who was having some issues, some behavioral issues and things that went on for many years, seemed to magically stop when I stopped competing. And so and I try really, you know, people are like, oh well, you can't blame yourself. And I'm like, well, I don't, I'm not blaming myself, like I'm not going to run around and just recognize.
Qawnana:but yeah, you recognize yeah.
Tina:And and and if it does anything for anybody else listening. You know I am not going to sit here and say you're going to ruin your marriage and your kids and everything else If you compete. That's not the case. But there are so many pitfalls to this sport and it is so easily to fall into the holes that this sport will create for you to fall into. Um, and it's just something to be aware of. Like, I have seen quite a few more than so many, so many eating disorders. I mean that, yeah, just across the board. But I've also seen more than I, really more than as a coincidence of women whose daughters end up with eating disorders when we're competing. I've seen it more than one. I'm not saying yeah, I don't know if it's a correlation or causation, but I've seen it Marriages that break up again. It could be for better or worse, I do not know right. Like I do have a lot of shows on in people's homes. But yeah, there's, you know it brings up, you know it does. It's very empowering. The sport is incredibly empowering.
Tina:I would not have discovered my passion for coaching had it not been to have met amazing people like you. You know the event is another one. She is yeah, it's another one of my spiritual friends. Yeah, same, but she, you know, she's my people. You know there are a handful of people that I've met that I'm grateful for, um, and this life that I have. Like I, I loved coach. I I never, I never, never regretted stopping competing. Like people are always like, oh, you don't ever think well. Or I started on HRT, it was yeah, it was fuck. No. Like I, I literally have no desire right now. It's really fuck no.
Qawnana:I know yep.
Tina:I'm definitely not. Yeah, um, but yeah, I was like no, like literally from 2012 until two years ago, when I started HRT for my health, like I was like, uh, no, we're, no, I'm never getting back on stage. I don't want to, I never.
Qawnana:I think like that, I think everything has a shelf life and I think that if you don't know when to throw in the towel, like, yeah, you, you know, uh, yeah, people that are that still do it, don't you? You got to know when to quit, man, you got to know when to quit. But you know, everybody's got to find, everybody's got to find that sweet spot. Some people have, you know, have more time and and some people don't, and um, I, you know, I always tell people, um, bodybuilding is what I did, it's not who I am right because I used to get put in a box with people all the time.
Qawnana:My favorite thing was oh, I googled you. I didn't know you were a bodybuilder. I used to bodybuild.
Tina:Right.
Qawnana:I am not a bodybuilder. I am a human being who happens to love all kinds of things. I'm quite the nerd I like. I love applied behavioral science. I love science in general. I love Prince. If you know me, you know, yes, right, like.
Qawnana:But bodybuilding is just a small part of who who I used to be in some capacity, but is mostly what I did Not, really who I was. I I will say this as also a mother. Had I not? And don't ask me where I found the energy, because I could not answer this question but while I was bodybuilding and coaching and working full-time and managing a marriage, I was also a cheer coach and a track coach and the team mom for the football team and at all the bands and all of the plays and all the things and all the stuff.
Qawnana:Because there was this part of me that felt guilty about being so selfish as a bodybuilder. Because you are so selfish as a bodybuilder, you got to find this balance. But here's the thing something you pay a price somewhere, you know what, and I'm grateful my kids have those memories of me being present and doing all the things. But sometimes I was just like I really do not want to be here, and I really don't want to do this with y'all. I just want to go to bed. But they don't listen. This is not the NBA. This is not right NASCAR. This ain't the NFL.
Tina:You did all this for a plastic fucking trophy.
Qawnana:That's maybe $35 if you're lucky.
Tina:And that's if it's like really big and tall.
Qawnana:And oh, by the way, you can't throw them away because there's no fucking room full of them and I still don't have mine storage. You can't. I've already tried. So, yeah, it's like. You know. There's a point. This is where I wish that we had people like us in our lives when we started, just to give us a little bit of relief and some grace from some of the challenges, but at the same time, we wouldn't be who we are right now, to be who we are for other people, had we not gone through these journeys. So you know, I'm like you.
Tina:That we are, and so I'm grateful for all of the dumps we had to do and go through and learn so that I can hopefully help somebody else not have to go through the same. You know the same pain and suffering. I'm curious if we want to, if there was anything else you wanted to add there. But I'm really curious if, like just your thoughts on body building, where we are in a year.
Qawnana:Well, I'm glad. I'm glad you asked and I'm gonna take you for a walk with me because I want to make sure that I got enough battery for this part of the discussion I might have to split this into two podcasts because we're already working on an hour, so sorry, if you're listening, you're gonna.
Tina:It may be split into two or I'll just keep it. Hey look, if andrew huberman can do three hour podcasts, we can do three hour podcasts. Y'all can just listen to it and spurts like in chapters exactly.
Qawnana:Well, so how I feel about the current state of bodybuilding? Um, I'm gonna try to keep it brief, but I'm gonna try to make sure I hit all the points I just can't number one I just you and I started so I'm sorry, say that again.
Tina:I was talking over you. I didn't mean to.
Qawnana:I said where was wellness at when you and I started right, because that was, that was us yes, On the top still muscular, but big black, big old booties and legs.
Qawnana:I'm kind of in my feelings that, after you know we're all beat up and and and retired in age, that they finally came out with a category for for people like us. Yeah, and now you know, I'm at this stage in my life where I'm like no, I'm trying to get back to the body I used to have before. I had to go and transform it because of bodybuilding, because I was fine. Here's the thing I was always fine with the way I looked. You had to have really thick skin back then because they were definitely telling me I didn't fit and figure also like you. So that's that.
Qawnana:I guess there's a part of me that's grateful for wellness, but a little envious. And then at the same time I'm like but I feel like y'all are going a little bit too far already and we just got started. Uh, I am sick of all of the different categories and can we just stick to the basics? Um, cause the shows are getting big. I'm so tired of more. The shows are getting very long and drawn out, and oh my God, getting very long and drawn out.
Tina:And oh my god for the love of god, can we, can we just not? Um, I would. I wish y'all like that, y'all are just going to be able to listen to this, not see it. But if you can see his face right now I'm not posting the video, but maybe I should, maybe I should Can we just so male coaches.
Qawnana:This one goes out to you and you know what Take, take it, take it or leave it. Can you? Can you all please stop trying to sleep with your clients, so that people like me and Tina don't have to actually then come and clean up your mess, emotionally and otherwise?
Tina:You've been there, done that.
Qawnana:Um, I'm, yeah, the end. I'll just leave it at that. Take again. Take it or leave it. Um, I hate social media for bodybuilding. Agree, um, I really hate social media for bodybuilding. I wish that social media could only be a place kind of like what we had, um, um, for connectivity and sharing information, almost like the message board type of deal. But social media is um. Social media has changed, completely changed the narrative of bodybuilding and I absolutely hate it. Um, for a multitude of reasons, and one of them be that the more you post, I guess you're supposed to win, and when I'm sitting at the judge's table, that's, that's not what I'm doing.
Tina:I'm, I don't matter In some federations, but it is not.
Qawnana:Yes, in some federations, it is true, not all federations. So yeah, thank you for that clarification Um.
Tina:I guess an actual requirement in the NBC.
Qawnana:Oh my God. Anyway, whatever I, what I will say is because of social media, maybe more there is more exposure to, like the, the drug use and, you know, sexual exploitation, that maybe was always there that you and I didn't get to see. What I miss is the innocence, though, of a competitor just being able to go pay their money to go do a show, meet some friends and then go back to the regular lives.
Tina:And it's not like that anymore.
Qawnana:That's gone. It's completely gone. And if you aren't the coaches of the coaches and the who's who of coaches like your athlete's not getting a fair shot at competing fairly because you ain't with the right coach, like what is that about? And you and I have this in common we're not here to rub elbows and make friends and people with the people. We're here to do a job and that's it. And I'm not about to make friends with you all just so that my clients can win. And if you're that kind of client, if you need that, I'm not your coach, like I'm not. Yes. And then, lastly, I would say I'm glad that I got to bodybuild. When I got to bodybuild at the time, that bodybuilding was bodybuilding.
Tina:Yes, yes, I'm going to, I'm going to piggyback on all of that and say and go backwards and say, yes, um, I'm glad we competed when we competed, um, because it was the age of innocence and bodybuilding, in that sense at least, you know, especially with the OCB, um, the physiques on stage were reasonable for you know, for um, and attainable for a lot of people. Um, uh, it was about friendships and community and um, and those are the people I have maintained relationships with, you know, since right and sure, I see my, you know I see people backstage like exchanging IGs, and now we're friends on IG and you know we're going to, you know we're here to support each other, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. But yeah. So I remember doing a seminar and somebody asked me the question do I think and this was several years ago do I think that social media has hurt or helped body, natural bodybuilding? And I said, well, I think it's a double edged sword, because I think it has brought natural bodybuilding in particular out into the open and more people now can and will participate. I think that's amazing for the sport. This was probably five, five to 10 years ago, I can't remember.
Tina:The downside is everything else right, it is the comparison game, it is the who's who. It is how much ass do you show? It is the exploitation, it is the comparison game, it is the so and so. It's 12 weeks out and so am I, but they blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It is the the appearance of politics in shows. Right, and? And like you, having judged in, I don't judge in the OCB anymore because I usually have clients in the show and they don't allow judges clients anymore, which is all, which is great. But you know, in all the years I judge shows and my husband judge shows, yeah, yeah here. Here's what politics means. So I want to make sure we're clear, right, politics is somebody at the judge's table says y'all better all vote for my, for this client on the stage, cause let everybody how this works.
Tina:It is a panel of five to seven people who now don't have clients on stage. Back then we may or may not have had clients on stage. But let's just do a scenario right now Q, you and I we're at a judge's table and there's some other folks there too. I have a client on stage and you have a client on stage, can you have? You could either of us tell the rest of the judges to vote for our client. No, no, you cannot and no, that happens. So q's got a client, I got a client, and the other people don't give a fuck who. Our clients are, right.
Tina:So they don't yep so no, the answer is no, there is no politics in that sense, right? Can there be some unconscious bias across a judging because of you know, maybe you know a particular look or a particular thing? Right? That that's just. That's just the nature of human beings and it's the nature of the subjectivity in this sport.
Qawnana:but psychology actually also.
Tina:Yes, the you know, but yes, you yes, you know, there there isn't politics in that sense. Um, you know the appearance of you know the thing? I'll tell you the. The thing I hate the most, which I think piggybacks off of sort of the, the age of innocence and bodybuilding is that we competed for a different reason. Everybody, I would say 99 of people that come to me that want to compete, I want to get my pro card and I'm like fuck off with that right, this second right, like. I'm like listen to me the first time you're getting on stage, the second time, the tenth time. What I do not want to hear from anybody is I'm going for my pro card. I'm going to knock out what social media has done to this sport is. Everybody thinks they deserve a fucking pro card, as you deserve, deserve as you talk about entitlement, right, entitlement. It took entitlement till you know however many shows it took me to get my pro. Six years, six years to get my figure pro card.
Qawnana:Well, there was a part of me that was chasing the pro card. But there was. It wasn't like it is now. Like I was chasing the pro card because I wanted to challenge myself more. For me I was like, if I, if I hit the pro ranks, it's now I've got to really step up my game and not be complacent with my, with my training. It was never really about like, oh, I'm a pro, like who gives a damn. Here's the thing I will tell you now. Most of us from back in the day enjoyed the, the amateur market, so much more. It was so much funner when we were just there as amateurs doing our thing and kicking it up after the show. I even guys say it. They're like I had my most exciting moments when I was on the amateur circuit, when I hit pro.
Tina:I didn't really love it as much, I tell clients to enjoy their amateur journey, because enjoy the process, enjoy the process and just, you know, put in the work and if it happens, and if it doesn't, it doesn't, because that's not what this is about anyway. Because guess, guess what happens when you turn pro? The show's more expensive, you have to travel because there isn't going to be one in your backyard. Yeah, you're going to start all over at the bottom. I went from in the same season, from winning my pro card and being I had been in the top two, three of like every show I'd ever competed in my first figure pro show I play second to last and I was like, wait, what I just spent my entire career in like the top two or three and you know I'm losing the overall. Get all frustrated, but at least I'm always in the top and my first like what the fuck do you mean?
Tina:I'm like six out of seven or whatever it was. I was like well, that sucks Right.
Qawnana:Oh God.
Tina:So, but you know, and then back to your points about you know the categories and the divisions and the. I appreciate because I have also promoted shows. I you know Eric, same Right. So, yep, same. I appreciate because I have also promoted shows. I, you know air shows right. So I have done you and I have both done this from every angle. I've been a judge, I've been an amateur athlete, a pro athlete. I have we've, we've promoted shows. So I get it from every angle. I get promoters want to make money. It's expensive. I get promoters want to make money. It's expensive. I appreciate the promoters that give a good experience. Where I struggle is shows that have not just okay, yeah, bikini, figure, wellness, physique, cool, and then all the men's stuff also cool, and then all the men's stuff also cool. But do we have to have 20 different classes within each one.
Tina:Right, do I, do I, and do a 35 and a 45 and a 55 and a 65 and do 100, I don't fucking care. But you know then you, that's what's making these shows go on forever, and it's like two people in each class, can we? Just it's too much and I will be honest, I have gotten a little jaded over the years because of some of the changes and because you and I have been at so many shows. I really struggle to be at shows and I try so hard to. I want to. I'm there for my clients, I try so hard to enjoy it for myself too, but it's getting harder and harder to do so because of some of the backstage stuff right there are. There are these teams of people that are just, yes, not fun. I'm not gonna say they're not teaching.
Qawnana:They're not teaching their athletes grace, they're not teaching them sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is gone, it yeah sportsmanship has sportsmanship and bodybuilding in 2025. It is gone. I miss that I miss sportsmanship, camaraderie, the sports camaraderie.
Tina:I miss all of that. The people you know, some of these quote-unquote teams of people are just coaches. They come in like they're, just, like they own the place. Entitled, entitled, entitled we just gonna keep throwing that out there so, yeah, so the whole and it's the athletes that are entitled, it's the coaches that are entitled, for one is influencing the other, and vice versa.
Tina:Yeah, social media makes everybody entitled yeah so I think that's the word for the day. Right like it this when you and I were 20 years ago, it was about the love of the competition and the journey and the sport itself. I loved this. I do not love the sport anymore, and there I said it. I simply do not.
Qawnana:So since you opened the door to and you admit it. You don't love the sport anymore. I am.
Tina:I am also going to admit because I still have to.
Qawnana:I still do this for a living and have a lot of you know what but it's fair to be honest and um, and I also don't love the sport anymore either, and I had to decide where do I find, where do I feel like I can be the most positive impact? Currently in the, in the state of where bodybuilding is Um, and for me it's actually judging, and so I, um, I don't just judge in the DC, maryland, virginia area anymore. Um, I do judge solely for OCB I, I I just appreciate everything that they've worked so hard to evolve it to what it's become and, being that it was my first look, I'm so proud of that. Definitely, I agree. I love being able to connect with other promoters in different parts of the United States and travel around to judge. So that's where my lane, because I don't love bodybuilding anymore. This is actually, in fact, my last year coaching. I am going to be retiring from coaching. So, tina, you're gonna be getting some folks, probably Because, when they asked me, like, who do I recommend, you literally are the first person that come to mind for obvious, these obvious reasons. We speak the same language. You have history, just like I do. So I know that anybody I send to you, you're going to take good care of them like you would do anybody else. But also I, I'm, I'm. I need to be selfish and give back to myself and as much as I've worked my body, I'm now in this place where I'm working my mind, I'm exercising my brain as much as I exercise my body and I'm leaning more into that, but I still I'm like, I just feel like I still have something to offer to bodybuilding. But for me and I'm going to tell you why I chose judging Because I remember being an athlete asking for judges' feedback and I remember some of the craziest feedback that I have gotten and thank god that I had thick skin and I wasn't dealing with like body dysmorphia or any other kind of like psych.
Qawnana:I mean, listen, I also suffered from depression and all these other childhood things and trauma and complex pcsd you name it. I probably had it, had it, but I never got myself so down in the dumps with the feedback, but I used to get some really jacked up feedback Tell me some Girl. Well, okay, so first of all, you know, let me go ahead and just put this out here. Not only did we start way back when remember, there wasn't that many black girls also competing back then for a long time it was like me, katrina Roundtree, and like maybe one other person, like for like, so I'm so. So before I go down this rabbit hole of why I don't like bodybuilding anymore, I will say I am so happy to see the diversity of bodybuilding where it's become, especially with women.
Qawnana:I remember going rebellious and I was like, damn that I'm not wearing a wig, cause I had judges telling me that I needed a longer wig and I needed all this stuff and I'm like I'm not wearing this shit. So I cut all my hair off and started rocking the pixie cut, and that's what I was known for was the short pixie cut. And listen, you couldn't tell me I wasn't cute with the pixie cut, because then I started really feeling myself on stage and feeling myself. But I've had women come up to me later and say, because of you, like you laid these grassroots, because of you I felt inspired to go and compete, because of you around tree. So I've had black women come up to me but then to see, like the Asian community and just the Latin community. And so I'm happy about that part, because it was lonely there when I started and for about five minutes I almost wanted to quit. Yeah, because I did deal with a little bit of racism in bodybuilding when we first started, but it was more so. This is another reason why I gravitated towards back to stay with OCB and decided, okay, this is my lane, because I didn't feel that there I could take my kids to a show and you probably had your little boy at your show and somebody else had their kids and it was a family affair and my kids didn't feel like intimidated and scared by the environment. But I remember, in the wheelhouse of NPC, I remember dealing with extreme of NPC. I remember dealing with extreme racism. I remember dealing with extreme racism.
Qawnana:But when it came to the judges feedback though, whether it was OCB or otherwise, back then again, because judges and coaches there were no coaches for figure, there were no women coaches. There wasn't. They know what to do with figure, it was just you know your ass is too big, like literally. Know your ass is too big, like literally flat out. Your butt is too big. You need to bring your butt down. You've got this tiny waist but your butt is just taking over your whole physique.
Qawnana:And, like, I remember one judge and it was a woman, so I guess she figured because she was a woman. She could just like say whatever the hell she wants, like she just had free reign to be so open and honest. She was like I have never seen a butt as round as yours. Like I literally wanted to just put my purse on your butt and I was like, all right, that's trash. Like that.
Qawnana:I got to a point where I was just like I can't even I got to pick and choose. Do I even want to get judges feedback? So I got to a point where where I was like I'm not even getting judges feedback, no more. And I started printing out my own pictures and I started putting them up on a mirror and I would get a red pen and I would circle and I'd smiley face and I'd x through this and I started analyzing myself because the judges feedback was absolutely trash and yeah, and I'm not gonna call no out, but there was one guy in particular, and this was when you could be a judge and have a spouse competing or have a cousin competing or you have a client competing or what have you.
Qawnana:And I knew, I knew based on the feedback, that I was getting, compared to this, to this woman, like you need to bring this kind of physique, and in my mind I'm like this is rich coming from you, cause, like, you have a relationship with this person and like, and so when I became a coach which, honestly, I became a coach in 20, 2007, 2008, like the end of 2007, like I started coaching you and I both yep. And then when I started judging, the first thing I started saying to my clients is I don't know you today of the show, I don't know you, and that was why I ended up hiring a whole team and I, you know a staff and they would take care of my clients and and I literally would look at him with a dead, dead ass face and I'd say here's the thing. I know what I did for you to get you here. However, the, the glasses that I'm wearing at the at the table are different pair of glasses? Yeah, and I'm going to place you exactly where you should be placed, based on the criteria, and be prepared for the feedback I'm going to give you. I'm going to do it with some grace and some tact, but I'm going to let you know exactly why I placed you where I placed you and how potentially you placed where you placed. I'm going to do that. So I was grateful when they changed the rules and I happily am like I got a client in this category. Let me get from the table. I love that now. I love that they put that in place.
Qawnana:I don't know how many other coaches had that integrity, but one thing that I didn't want I didn't want nobody accusing me of not having integrity, because I back then had larger team. I had a big team of girls too, and I would bring my girls and then they'd want me to judge and I would even say, no, I've got a team. Well, you know, we still would love to have you judge. We just think you're a great judge. So I decided that until I'm ready to completely be done with bodybuilding, like that's it, no more bodybuilding at all.
Qawnana:Judging is where I'm going to sit. That's the seat I'm going to sit in because I take my time, even if the athletes don't like that, I'm taking my time. I'm taking my time to give you real, genuine feedback, and how I know that it's good genuine feedback is because of the response I'm getting back from the athletes. This was really helpful feedback, you know. Thank you so much for this. Now I have something measurable to use. My coach is going to appreciate this also, or, you know, sometimes I might get. Well, this is the best feedback I've ever gotten.
Qawnana:The other judges didn't even, you know, put this much Like so for me. That's how I know that. This is how I knew this is my lane and it was because of the athletes. The athletes spoke to me, but I am. This is my. I have a client right now who is preparing and I told her I was retiring. She said, okay, I guess I'm retiring too. I guess we're retiring together. So I'm getting her through this year and then that'll be it for me as far as coaching I'm done.
Tina:I have a five-year plan to be out which coincides with maybe four years now I'm losing track of time but it coincides with Eric and I moving out of this area and down to South Carolina, which is our plan. Okay, I have. I will always coach in some capacity. I have been coaching in some capacity for 30 years, whether it was in the government or whatever. So I will always coach. I loved coach. I do equine assisted coaching now. So my, my passion has transitioned into helping with other aspects of their lives that don't involve starving them to get on stage. For like I've just, and for me, like it has I, I've really it's.
Tina:It's a shift in perspective for me as I've aged and being in my now, knowing what I know, experiencing what I'm experiencing in midlife, and just my own growth right over the years, like I want to help women live long, healthy, joyful lives Right, and so that does not always involve in fact, 99% of the time, it most certainly does not involve tracking every single macro that you eat. You know starving yourself for an unrealistic look, and I'm again, I'm not saying that there aren't positive things for all of that.
Tina:I wouldn't have done it for so many years if I had, but my perspective has shifted and I want to help women men you know that I coach be well in other areas of their life, and so that's where my coaching has shifted and I work. I re-found my passion for equines and being with horses and being able to share that with other people and doing my withers and wellness and equine assisted coaching. So that's just taking me down another path, but I have wanted to quit the sport a lot, so there's a little piece of me that's a little jealous that you said you were, you were retiring. But I'm always, you know, I'm always concerned to put this out into the universe because I I do still plan to coach in the sport, and so I, you know, if anybody hears this and is like, oh well, she doesn't want to be coaching, so I don't want her as my coach, that's not, that's not true. I still believe, I still know that and, yes, I am one of the best coaches out there for a woman.
Tina:Am I going to get you a pro card? I can't promise you that. Am I willing to go to the most extreme lengths to make you a certain way on stage? The answer to that is absolutely not. I will get you on stage with the health healthiest mental, physical, emotional and spiritual capacity that I can. I'll be 100% honest in telling you what I think, what you mental, physical, emotional and spiritual capacity that I can, um, I'll be a hundred percent honest in telling you what I think, what you know, where you belong, where you should be, what we should be doing you know, so on and so forth. I will talk more people out of competing than I will into competing at this point in my life.
Tina:Um, and I'm very choosy about who I will coach, because I'm not interested in um will coach me. I'm not interested in helping somebody be crazier than they already are. Right, like I'm just. I'm just making somebody's life. It's not in that business. So I know that I still have a place here because you know what, what, what my clients tell me. They're like, well, you could quit and people are still gonna compete and now they're just gonna go to some other wackadoo that's just gonna ruin their life so yeah, like, yeah, I got that same comment we need you here to keep doing this, so that you know there aren't even more women that need to be saved from the bullshit that they get from you know unfortunately a lot of male coaches.
Tina:I'm not. There are some male coaches. I'm not.
Qawnana:There are some male coaches out there but there are some really good male coaches, but there are some really bad.
Tina:You know, I'm not, I'm actually not just saying men, because I've had plenty of clients from from bad, bad, uh female coaches bad coaches in general, yeah, but yeah, there's back, there's original thing about bad feedback, I will tell you like.
Tina:So, on the racism side, I have not experienced that, but I have clients experience that I you know a black female client of mine compete me, npc, who went in with her natural hair. I mean incredible physique, like beautiful physique, you couldn't deny it. And the feedback was this is about beauty, after all, don't be afraid to wear a wig. As if she weren't beautiful with her natural hair, which of course she was. But that was the feedback and it sounds like it was pretty similar to the feedback you were getting, and but in terms of. So two of my favorite feedbacks, the literal feedback, has stuck with me. One was you should have curled your hair more.
Qawnana:What does that have to do with your physique? Nothing but okay.
Tina:Yeah, if you can see my face right now, that's just right. Um, and then the other was, and I had to look this word up. She said your countenance on stage was off-putting. I was like what the what is count? I was like, what is that? Right? I was like I had to go look up the word. So it was basically what I thought was confidence. Right, my, by the way, that I project my confidence on stage apparently was off-putting to this particular female judge. I was too confident, I look smug, maybe I, I don't know, like all I. I was like, okay, I, you know, I was like. And then I had another one that said there was something about my lipstick liner and okay, we're grasping at straws at this point, like.
Qawnana:so I was like yeah, okay, so again.
Tina:So back to the point. You know, if we're just talking about judges feedback in general, I appreciate that you, you know, as a judge, you take your time to give it. I have the, the bullshit feedback that I, you know, cause I have all my clients send me whatever feedback they get, and then I I tell them how to ask for feedback, I tell them go over this feedback together. I also them that you know, you know some of it, you know we'll, we'll look at it and go, yep, I agree, some of it might not hold any way.
Tina:I know what you need to work on, right I will take pictures and sometimes I can tell you, like I already know what the athletes going to, know what we need to work on and know where our weak points are. And if I look at you next to the other people on stage, most of the time I can go okay, well, like I can see, they went with this and not that, because everybody showed up looking like this. It made you look like that. You know how, you know how that works. So, um, I mean, there are plenty of times that I, I can't explain it and I just, I just go.
Tina:I don't know what happened on that stage. Like I can't, literally, I'm like I got nothing. I can't tell you what they were looking for, I can't explain why they picked this over, that you know. Sometimes I simply can't. Um, it's the nature of the sport. But yeah, those were kind of my, my, my favorite. I will say I'm very grateful that the OCB has put so, you know, so many of the rules and regulations, and that they have, because I recently had a pretty egregious bit of feedback. One of my clients got at a show where they gave verbal feedback, not written, which is already against the rules, already against the rules and you know, telling her exactly what she needed to do to change her physique told her to stop eating fruit, told her to start doing HIIT training. The only vegetable she should eat is broccoli, and that was it Right.
Tina:That was her little feedback, but I will say, I took that to the OCB and they took care of it.
Qawnana:Right and I was like, yeah, and I believe that social media right, Like I wasn't running around and playing about it. They just wanted to have heard it. Yeah.
Tina:I appreciate that they've you know that, that they've standardized that and put it in those things.
Qawnana:But you know, they've also, like you know, just just cause I can speak on this, we are required to actually, we're required to actually take these. You know, these seminars and these forms and these classes, and I remember one year, sully, was like Q, like why are you in this? Why are you on this Um this, why are you on this meeting? Like you've already done like three or four of them and I'm like it's fine.
Tina:It doesn't hurt to. It doesn't hurt to hear it again as many times as I need to hear it like it doesn't. It's fine. Yeah, eric is Eric. Yeah, he still judges. So he's, yeah, it's through him. And of course, I usually listen because it's, you know, zoom and he's got it, you know going on.
Qawnana:So, yeah, yeah, I all right. So that that is where I feel like you know, know, I'm not like, like, so I'm not really quite ready to totally give up the bodybuilding world yet, but I just feel that you will be a good.
Tina:Knowing that there are good judges behind the judges table means a lot to you. Know coaches and athletes. You know putting their athletes on stage knowing that they can trust who's on the judging panel to do the right thing.
Qawnana:With coaching. I want to leave people better than I found them Like. That's how I felt about coaching and as an athlete. These athletes are wanting to impress us. They want it's like mom, look, I got an A. Like they want to make us proud and so, no matter where they place and what their why is and why they hit the stage, at the end of the day they're human beings and we are talking about their bodies. Like you gotta be mindful about how you talk to somebody about their physical space, for God's sakes. Like you don't know what kind of I mean.
Qawnana:Again, we just talked about how three of my four cancers literally was as I was a bodybuilder. Some of those times that was a victory for me, I was stepping bodybuilder. Some of those times that was a victory for me, I was stepping on stage, feeling victorious because I just I just overcome cancer again. So to have some judge come out of pocket with some BS feedback that holds no substance and now I have nothing to use, no measurables to go and improve. Like again, it's a good thing. I had thick skin, you know, and I had an awareness of realizing, like okay, but also you're this chocolate girl who you know at the time, the industry hadn't really evolved to more of me yet, and it was brutal. It was brutal and I just I'm like you know what I want to be the change. It was brutal and I just I'm like you know what I want to be the change.
Tina:No-transcript when I get tired of I still feel like I got hit by a truck after a show, having even just sitting at the judge's table.
Qawnana:So when I get tired of torturing myself there, then I'll completely hang up my hat. But I, I feel like, um, I feel like there's just a little bit more juice there, um, but when it comes to the emotional support, the psychological portion of bodybuilding, I'm done with that part because I really want to pour more into myself and, like you, I've always been a coach. I will continue to coach at other capacities. I am currently getting a degree in applied behavioral science and working on using that tool to navigate in another, in a different space, with coaching and not looking to be a therapist or anything like that, but definitely more along the lines of teaching. Maybe some, some seminars, maybe some TED talks who know, you never know with me. That's more of the direction that I'm ready to head and again, look forward to going to shows and seeing my peeps.
Qawnana:You know, but you know, apparently, what are the names? There were so many. There's Throwback, there's Vintage, there's Old School, the OGs. Yeah, yeah, are the names there? There were so many. There's throwback, there's vintage, there's old school, the oldies.
Tina:Uh, yeah, yeah, and I don't know how many more, how many of us are really left when I think about it on a broader scale that are still like actually actively involved yeah it's not many and it's not many, and I think a lot of people don't know who the fuck we are right and you know what, and I'm gonna try not to feel in my feelings about that.
Qawnana:Sometimes I know, but sometimes I do, sometimes I do and then sometimes I'm actually glad. Yeah, sometimes I'm like what you mean? You don't know what do you mean, you don't know who I am, and then I'm like what you mean, you don't know what do you mean, you don't know who I am, and then I'm like you know what? I'm actually glad Cause now I don't have to have a surface level conversation with you Like this is great, no small talk from you, this is wonderful. You know, um, so I, you know, so I I took the line some. Some days I'm in my feelings and some days I'm really grateful that people don't really know the line. Some.
Tina:Some days I'm in my feelings and some days I'm really grateful that people don't really know. Yeah, you know, it's funny you said that actually because I feel like sometimes I feel that way. It shows there. You know most of the local shows I run into, at least you know 10 people right that that uh, you know sort of kind of OGs or you know coaches that I have. You know, even if it's just a professional relationship with a high buy there there are plenty of people that I see that I, that I have to. Uh, eric calls it my this, this is not just for women but he calls it my hey girl face. He said you got your on where you just like girl, right, like, and it's not just girls, but that's just how he, that's how he puts it. There are plenty of people I have to like.
Tina:I tell my clients all the time I was like listen, I was like y'all don't even know how much bakery I have like, because I I do maintain professional with everybody, and I'm not saying I dislike everybody, that I say hi to that is not what I'm saying, so don't feel as hurt hurt next time we're at a show. But yeah, there are people. So I think how we started this conversation right, it was like were you genuinely? It's like that hug from you, a hug from Yvette like this, like it just fills my spirit up, it fills my soul up, I know that you're genuine.
Tina:And then there, are those that I'm just like, you know, it's like a hug and I'm like, hey, I'm just like man. Nobody knows me here and you know what? I'm just going to hang out with my clients and that is by me and I don't it's. I don't need anybody to give me, you know me you know.
Tina:But, um, you know now that we've been doing this for almost two hours, I want to. Yes, so you had written some stuff down, so I make sure if there's anything else we didn't cover, but like if you had, like, this may sound like your, your favorite thing about the last 20 years, or having been in the sport, or your, um, just what's your, your takeaway, or something you can give to others as a takeaway, like your takeaway. I'm actually more interested in your takeaway, like what's really, hmm, well, just you, maybe it's the most maybe I'm asking the question wrong Like the most impactful, the most, maybe.
Qawnana:I'm asking the question wrong, like the most impactful. Well, okay, no, that that's so. Actually, it's funny that you asked that question, because how I wanted to end this was there were two things that I wanted to make sure that I did, to kind of close the portion of what I needed to say about the past 20 years. Um, and the first thing is, you know, number one, thank you for indulging me in this, in this conversation. My heart is so full, my cup is full. I wanted to make sure that I gave you your flowers. I wanted you to hear from me, while we're of the same mind and body still, you know, and have our memories intact for the most part. I wanted you to hear directly from me, and not at a show when things are busy just how much I have appreciated you over these years and how proud I am of you and watching you evolve right To to who you've become. And just, I'm watching you too, like you know, on social media, like you said earlier when we started this conversation, we don't hang out. We're not key Canada, we don't go on girls trips and all this other stuff. We have a different definition of what friendship is, and this is a great example of explaining to people that friendships are not as in a box as people would like to think that it is. There are different levels to friendship and this is a great example of that. And, just like watching your son grow, we both something else we had in common we both had children in the military that are stressing us out with what's going on in their lives right now. And you know we we have both gone through illnesses and sundowns in marriages and working through childhood trauma and trying to find our, our spiritual space and just trying to find our place in the world. And even though we come from two totally different walks of life, we're not really that different, right? And I just wanted to make sure that, like this year, this year in general has been a year of reflection for me in so many ways for a lot of different reasons, and that was why I reached out to you and I was just like you know what. I just want to have a good conversation about the good old days, and I wanted you to verbally hear from me how much I greatly have appreciated this 20 year journey with you, and I couldn't think of a better person to have had these memories with. You were the only person I thought of. You were the only person that I thought of, and I've known so many people right, just like you, throughout these 20 years, but you were the one. And when I say to my family y'all know little Tina, they know exactly about. So when I told them that we were doing this, they're so excited, they can't wait to hear because now they get to go back down memory lane with us and you know I. So thank you for indulging me. Um, and then lastly and I'm going to try not to crash here it comes thank you.
Qawnana:I could not end this conversation without talking about Matt Shepley, because if Matt Shepley hadn't done what he'd done, you and I wouldn't have become friends and we wouldn't be where we are right now. We have him to thank for our friendship, we have him to thank for our journey and I personally have him to thank for creating a seat at the table for me. He created so many seats. He saw things in me that I didn't even know existed. When it came to promoting, when it came to judging I wasn't thinking about judging those shows that was Matt. That was Matt. Shows, that was matt, that was matt. Um, just again coming up to me at these weird times and just whispering in my ear that he noticed something up on you.
Qawnana:You wouldn't even know and he's like you know how tall he is, right and so and so, and it's probably even more for you because you're shorter than I am and you know, you know, and and and, not knowing, he had such a weird sense of humor and like he'd be sitting next to me, I'd be at the judge's table with the microphone by the way head judging, and he'd lean in and he'd say something and I look at him and I'm like, was that a joke or were you being serious? Cause I could never figure it out. So I just started laughing at everything he said and just I was like I'm just laughing at everything, but I just I want to. I want to say that, in the midst of all the excuse my language it's my favorite word though the bullshit, the bullshittery of life. There are times when you have to sit back and you have to remember that it's not all bad. And there are moments like our journey good, bad, ugly. And there are times when you have to sit back and you have to remember that it's not all bad. And there are moments like our journey good, bad, ugly and indifferent. And people like Matt Shepley, who had a vision, he brought it to life and he created a space for people like me and you to be able to become the women that we are today, to be able to show up for other men and women.
Qawnana:And I don't know that the word gratitude is large enough, but that's the word I'm going to use. I'm grateful for it all. I don't even think there's one moment in particular that I can. Well, there is this one really cute moment that I hope I never forget. So if I lose my memory, you and Eric needs to remind me of this, I do have a picture. It is the show, and I think it was 20, it was 2006 and they did a pushup contest and they got these bodybuilders who were depleted, up there doing a bodybuilding contest and my little girl and her oversized by OCB t-shirt that we had just gotten in our swag bag and her flip-flops was like mom, I want to do the pushup contest, only kid up there, only little girl.
Qawnana:And they let her get up there and she's next to eric and they don't have them just doing any kind of push-ups, they got them like holding it halfway I remember that and and, and she was just as cute as she can, looking, looking from left to right, looking at all the guys as they were all flapping and hitting the stage, and she won, won, she won, she won the pushup contest. And I remember Eric saying, well, of course she won. She's like five pounds. She probably had a sandwich before she came up here. It was so cute. She's like in this picture with her little braids, right next to Eric doing this pushup contest, and I was like, see, it's just little stuff like that. It's just, it's little stuff like that.
Qawnana:And I don't even know, I don't even what sad is, I can't even tell you what. What I placed at that show. I think I went for the overall and lost, lost the overall, and if I, because I think it was presidential cup, if I can. But I don't remember what I did at the show. I just remember that part of the show was so stinking cute I I just love that it was a family environment. I love that my kids got to have a front row seat to watch your mommy go, do, go live out her childhood dream, and I couldn't do that anywhere else. I couldn't.
Tina:Yeah.
Qawnana:I couldn't. I loved it all. I would, I loved it all.
Tina:I, I really did too, I think, think, even though I get a little curmudgeony about things. 20 years later, yeah, it was beautiful back then, it was truly life-changing and you're right, you know, matt Shepley is why I mean, you know, and a lot of people don't don't really know him, you know, they didn't get to experience, you know, growing up in the sport with him and, um, you know he, you know, go doing the seminars with him. And we even did this local here in in Bowie. Um, it was Matt, me, eric, rochelle Cannon and I forget there was another guy no, I can't remember who it was and we did one of the local. We did an interview for one of the. You know, you know, your little local tv, not like 84 is like whatever your public news channel thing um, and I remember that moment and so many moments with him and with, like, our original OG crew. Um, I remember a group of us went up to Sully's and Sully was our coach at the time and he was his.
Tina:Spirit of America is another show that was near and dear to my heart and we all travel. It was me and Eric and Yvette and, uh, kareem Petaway Remo, I don't call him anything, I don't know him any other way. Um, and Doug and Stephanie, and we all stayed with with Sully and Deb and right, like we were just like people all over the place, and you know, and it was just, and we just, we all went up there as a group. Those were the like people all over the place and you know, and it was just, and we just, we all went up there as a group. Those were the OTs to help him with his show.
Tina:With his show. It was amazing that the family, the group of us that you know just, were together from the beginning.
Tina:just, we're together from the beginning and and, like you said there's, you know, I have really enjoyed watching the success of like doug and stephanie, and they're, you know, they're god yes, I feel like I'm, like I knew them when, uh, and philip ricardo, you know he's another, yes, I'm watching you know his rise and and marshall, and yes, and, and, and you and I and you know Joe, joe Franco, and you know, and just those are the people I remember being on those OCB chat boards.
Tina:We've been there from the beginning and I have loved watching the success that none I'm I truly believe all of us would have been successful in whatever we did, right, you don't, you don't. If you're going to be successful, you're going to be successful. But yeah, we were like together in this bubble, right, yeah, that it was a bubble that created to have gotten to watch everybody sort of flourish from this and I, and, and at the core of it all was natural bodybuilding, right, so again, we all could have been great business owners and corporate whatever, but we got to. I got to have a front row seat watching this and I will say that that is, that is a good thing about social media. Otherwise I would not know and see the kids growing up.
Tina:So I, I, I appreciate that, but it really is I wouldn't have gotten to have those relationships, I wouldn't have had this relationship with you, um, and have been a part of your life and and hearing you say that you know about me, it's just it, just it means the world to me because, like I said, I get a little stuck in my head about where I am Right and sometimes and and to to feel like I've made a positive difference on somebody's life is that's all I'm here to do, right, and so that's like, at this point in my life, that's all I care about is again living my own joyful life, whatever that, whatever that entails getting through the bullshittery of life, as, as you said, like the lifey things as we were talking about before we started. You know, I think our conversation when we first started was like so how are you?
Qawnana:well, it's like life and life and we're just, we're just doing the thing.
Tina:Um, I could complain about lots relationship. If I could say anything to anybody listening to this that gives a fuck. At this point, two hours later, I might be new to the sport and or, having only been in the sport for a little while, is you know here it's. It's about the community, it is about the friendships, it is about the journey you take for yourself.
Tina:It is not about the likes and the looks and the pro cards and the you know, and it's just not um in the end, because you can't take any of that stuff with you, right? And when you reached out to me and you said that you know it's, it's the relationships you want to that stuck with you, and that you wanted to remember your exact words, that that you wanted to, what did you say?
Qawnana:Oh, I know what I said. I said when I'm old and I lose my memory.
Tina:I said when I'm old and I lose my memory.
Tina:This is the one relationship that I don't want to forget and, yeah, and that make you that was everything, that that from you was everything, and I meant it. And and I meant it because you know it's the other thing I'll tell you know because you know I'm not old by any means. But you know you start thinking and like, ok, well, I'm not going to be on this planet forever. And you start thinking about, like, I think I think about you often, right, there are, I see you on social media, that much. But you're on my mind and you're on my heart. And you know you have those things where you're like I need to reach out. And then time goes by. I need to reach out, I need to reach out, and I'm just so grateful that you did that and I want to maintain that and I say this to anybody everywhere Like you have to do, if somebody is on your mind, reach out.
Tina:Yep, like you have to do, if somebody is on your mind, reach out. Oh yeah, do it. We don't. We don't need to go to dinner, we don't need to pretend like we're gonna. Let's go to lunch once a month, we don't no we don't need to do all that.
Tina:Yeah, and you're reaching out to me in that moment meant the world to me. This two hours meant the world to me every hug I get from you at a show means the world to me. There are very few things that I enjoy about shows anymore. Honestly, I mean, yeah, I'm sorry, I love seeing my clients, but the rest of the canning is it's been 20 years.
Qawnana:I'm real tired of this. We're allowed to be tired and say we're tired.
Tina:We're tired of being in shows. We're loud, it's getting you know those, those moments, those moments make it worth it. Like you know all the hassle of being there and um and having this relationship with you. 20 years later, and um, and you ain't going nowhere, I'm still gonna see you, we ain't going, although I'm not really allowed to hug you right, because, like judges, aren't supposed to like. Well, you know.
Qawnana:So like is yeah, but we can sneak, you know, we can sneak a hug, you know. You know how we do. We kind of hurry this real quick or we can do the nod.
Tina:Maybe you know, maybe do the little in the parking lot afterwards.
Qawnana:Yeah, yeah, like see you in the parking lot. I'll see you in the parking lot, yeah, but for different reasons. Uh, yeah, we'll figure it out, we'll figure it out well, and I always, and same health, and your kids.
Tina:Um, where are each of your kids right now?
Qawnana:um, well, my daughter, your daughter, my, my daughter is she? In matter of fact, my daughter has served eight years in the military. She just renewed her contract, so she is eight years in into the army. And, um, my son actually lives in florida, he lives in tampa. Um, I am not a grandmother yet but, um, I'm hoping to be a mother-in-law eventually, and maybe some grands on the way, because you know, my son is, he'll be 29 this year, so I think how do you have kids that age? Oh girl, I ask myself that question all the time. You know, uh, doing well, good I'm.
Tina:I'm really glad to hear that. I hope that your daughter stays safe with ever, with whatever shenanigans are going on. She's in the army, she's in the army. Yeah, I remember watching her swearing in the picture. I remember, I remember. I remember timeline, so I didn't know it was eight years ago, but like I do remember and yeah.
Qawnana:Eight years ago.
Tina:That's crazy.
Qawnana:Yeah, time, time waits for no one it doesn't.
Tina:And um, you know, I'll take all the prayers I can get from my kid and his, absolutely. You got it First. Deployment Yep.
Qawnana:Yep.
Tina:Yep, without breaking out a sec, let's just say he's in the shit of it and he can use the prayers, right, and yeah, yeah, let's just yeah.
Qawnana:extended his deployment and I wanted to come home yeah, yeah, the only thing we can do is just um. The only what's gotten me through this past year with my daughter and her her deployment is I've had to remind myself that I've, I've I showed up for her and I've given her father and I've both given, given her the tools to show up for herself, and I'm not in control of any of this. So let me not work myself up and get sick and you know um and stay stay faithful and and positive and optimistic as much as I can, but also realistic at the same time, and um I just I can't wait to get my hands on her like I'm holding my breath and I know you are doing the same.
Tina:I just need him and I just get my hands on this.
Qawnana:So I tell yes yes, I need to touch you. Yes, just my hands on this so I tell, yes, yes, I need to touch you.
Tina:Yes, physically put my hands on. Yes, oh, my my only baby boy. Yeah, yep, yeah, just this.
Qawnana:Yep, it's hard, it's rough, it's rough, it is rough, yep, but we're tough. They, yep, but we're tough. They're tough, yep, they're tough because we get, because we made them that way. Yeah, yeah, but man, well, they are stressing us out. Yes, they are.
Tina:All right, I love you so much.
Qawnana:I think we just told you at the same time In unison Come here, puppy Yep, I love you so much and again, I will also keep you and eric and your son in prayer and I can't wait for the next hug. I'm looking forward to the next hug, what's?
Tina:the next. Are you going to be at um richmond or conquer?
Qawnana:uh, I will be well, it's mother's. I think it's mother's day weekend mother's day weekend.
Tina:Richmond is eas weekend. We got these promoters about the time. I know.
Qawnana:Easter weekend? I'm not sure about yet, but Mother's Day weekend? No, because I, my daughter, will be back by then and she and I are going to be hugging trees and our dogs and each other. So I was. Yeah, I'll have a client there, that's actually my son.
Tina:That weekend is my son's birthday and it's mother's day weekend, but he was supposed to have already been home. Yeah, and since it was extended, it is entirely possible that all of may gets. You know, I, I really I have no idea. So you know, eric and I both are like I'm like well, just letting even clients that are booking yes, you know, posing and stuff out there, I'm like, yeah, let you know now and I'll give you possible.
Qawnana:Yeah, things could be canceled at a moment's notice, you know, yeah because that we, we know, we know when they want us to know. Yep, yep, yep, so that, so that's where I'm at, yeah and then I will see you at one of these shows. You will, you will, I will. There's a couple of on the list that I'm sure I will be going to, and then I'll also be traveling, like I said, to other States and judging as well.
Tina:So Well, okay, well, I love you and I will. Oh, you know what? I'm going to hit 20, happy 20th anniversary and happy women's history month. So happy women's history month month at the end of it, and I'm going to close out. Well, the saying that Brandy and I always said was don't get weird, use your head, it'll all be okay. And then we will say I like it. Bye, bye.