Coaching & Cocktails

S5 Ep4: Behind the Show: What Athletes & Promoters Need to Know

• Tina Peratino and Ginny Grivas-Ford • Season 5 • Episode 4

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Ever planned peak week to the minute, only to hit a three-hour tan line or a makeup team running on fumes? We unpack the real anatomy of a great bodybuilding show—what helps athletes shine, what tanks a physique, and how top promoters keep hundreds of competitors calm, fed, and stage-ready without wasting a second.

From our combined roles as athletes, pros, coaches, promoters, judges, expediters, and even MCs, we map the blueprint for an elite athlete experience. We get specific about where we think shows fall apart—first-come-first-served tanning, chaotic check-ins, costume-heavy routines that bloat schedules, and federations that charge drug testing fees but rarely test. Then we highlight what works: tight stage walks, clean bios, reliable tanning and makeup teams trained for stage lighting, proactive email communication, and true chain-of-custody drug testing that protects a natural field.

We also name the promoters who consistently deliver.. but you have to listen to find out who made our list! As shows grow, the best organizers adapt—splitting into two-day formats, turning photos and feedback fast, and even sending post-event feedback surveys to keep improving. Along the way, we give love to the expediters who hustle backstage to help keep the whole machine moving.

If you care about integrity, timing, and athlete-first design, this one’s for you. Hit play to learn what to look for when picking your next show, how to advocate for yourself with vendors, and which events truly respect your prep. If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe, share with a teammate, and leave a quick review—what’s the one change you want every promoter to make next season?

Looking for a coach to help you be YOUR best self in bodybuilding or just in life? Let's get in touch!

Team CSFP

IG: @teamcsfp
FB: https://www.facebook.com/teamcsfp

To reach out to Tina @ Center Stage Athletics

www.centerstagethleticscoaching.com

info@centerstageathleticscoaching.com

To reach out to Ginny @ Thrive NutriFit

www.thrivenutrifit.com

IG & FB: @ginnygrivas

SPEAKER_00:

Good morning. Hello. Welcome to Coaching and Cockta. What is it? Coaching and Cocktails. Yes. I'm not drinking. I swear the cocktails have not started. It is only 10 o'clock in the morning. I just can't, I can't speak. It's December 16th and it's um cold and we're all like really stressed and tired because the holidays are here.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, hello. Yes, and it's it is cold. It's too cold. I think we should start off our podcast from now on with like hot toddies or something.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know. Yes. Yes. I have a girlfriend that actually does a um well, she used to do a uh podcast called Coaching and Coffee or Coffee and Coaching, I think. Um, but it was a different topic altogether. Um so anyway, welcome. It is cold, it is almost the holidays, it's December 16th. They said it's the coldest um winter. Uh so far on record, it's not even winter yet in the last 20 years. Coldest early beginning of December. We're here in Maryland and Virginia. So wherever you're listening in the country, if it's warmer than 19, yay for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep, yep. We we pride ourselves in whining quite a bit. So if you are from like if you're like from Chicago, uh this is nothing. Yeah, we we enjoy whining, it is part of my daily training.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, like I just gotta get it out there, and then I'm just like, okay, but I'm gonna do it anyway, right? I just need to bitch about it a little bit and then I need to move on with life. Um, all right. So, how's life and what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_01:

Life is great, and today I want to talk about um the show experience for both amateurs and for pros. I think it'd be great to talk a little bit about as a competitor, what kind of shows should you be looking at? Uh, what experience is it that you're looking for? And then also for the promoters, anyone that might be listening that is a current promoter or is looking to promote, what kind of things do your competitors want to see? Um, it really boils down to the experience.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's kind of what I want to talk about. Yeah, and I think that you um, especially since you sort of ran the the gauntlet of uh shows and federations this year, I think you probably have a lot. You you were able to compare like three different federations in a season, right? Yes, or was it two federations?

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, uh this season I did two between right. Last it was last season you added the other one.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, that's right.

SPEAKER_01:

And then I yeah, the year before it was MPC, PMBA, OCB, just all all the alphabet soup word vomit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you know, and as a coach and having been well, and here's the thing like my perspective for people who who don't know, I I was an amateur athlete, I was a pro athlete. I have been I have promoted shows, so I actually know what it takes to promote a show. Um, I promoted four shows for the AMBF several years ago. I have uh we've expedited. I've been a coach backstage, obviously. I've been a judge, I've done pro literally, I've been an MC. I almost forgot about that. I've literally done everything there is to do in terms of a show. So um I think I have some perspective. I can I can honestly say that as a coach, you know what? It's actually a whole lot harder as a coach to me to be backstage at a show all day long. Um, and I might be getting a little grumbly and and old um in terms of like my feelings about things. So I'm gonna try to to keep it professional and not be grumbly and old. So um, so why don't you I don't know, maybe why don't we start by what you experienced this year in um the good, the bad, and the maybe not so great. All the everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The everything and it's it is interesting that you are you're experiencing now from from a judge's point of view, where I'm still experiencing it as currently as like an a competitor point of view. And the real big difference between that is that I'm incredibly hungry that day and you're not, and you're ordering Chick-fil-A, Tina.

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't get Chick-fil-A. I have never seen me order Chick-fil-A at a show ever. In one time, that was not me. Oh, that'd be Maliki. That's that was not me. I um I bring my for the record, I bring uh the my own food to a show. I still pack my meals to come to these shows, you know, just like a competitor would. Granted, my meals are probably a little more. I remember one of the shows backstage this year. I brought a, you know, it was just a ham sandwich. You know, it was on whole wheat toast, and I had lettuce and tomato. I think I had some arugula on there. Like I still always put my veggies. It was just like some ham and Swiss cheese. And the way people looked at me backstage, the number of competitors that walked by me, and actually it was mostly men because I think the men were still on, so I don't think a lot of the women were backstage. The men were like, Oh my god, is that a sandwich? Because was there mayonnaise on it? Did you actually uh yes, there was real mayonnaise on it. Listen, I'm not making a sandwich without real mayonnaise, and so these poor guys were, they're like, Oh my god, is that real bread? And I was like, Yeah, it sucks to be you. That's why I'm not on stage anymore. So I will say, from a coach's perspective, it's easier to be backstage in that respect because you're not hungry. Um, and I do get to partake in all of my clients' um pump up treats. That is my guilty pleasure. I'm like, oh what your pump-up treat, sour patch kids, I'm on it. Your pump-up treat is like uh what I don't know, a Reese's cup. Oh, you you brought like a four-pack? Yeah, I'll eat one of those. Your pump-up treatment. You don't need all of these. I'm like, look, you should see me backstage speaking of great promoters, right? Our our our pal, um Bobby Cavino, that does the uh Chesapeake Classic and the Presidential Cup. He's absolutely my favorite. And I swear it is not because he has boxes of cookies and candy backstage. And I am forever backstage. Like, I'm like, oh, I'll take this little pack of Oreos. Oh, I'll take this little pack of Rizzies Cups. And so I yeah, yeah. So he always has treats, and and you know, therefore, the coaches and the competitors, he's got waters and he's got Gatorades and he's got monsters and like all the you know things. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it's and we're I'm definitely am gonna get to talking about that particular show because it was just phenomenal from the experience of it. And I so for for people who haven't yet competed, or of course, obviously those that that that have, um whenever you go to produce a show, it's an incredible undertaking. It's quite an endeavor for the for the show promoter. You know, there's there's promotion of the show, there's organization of it, there's obtaining those sponsors, there's getting your expediting team, which is your backstage run of show team together, there's all your judges, then it's coordinating the vendors. Um, and that's not just your table folks that are up front that are trying to hawk goods, but also like your tanners and your makeup, and it is a massive, massive it's a massive production.

SPEAKER_00:

And I will tell you because I have promoted four shows, you're not making any money. This is not a money-making venture. If you're doing it right and you're truly doing everything you're doing for the athletes and bringing in high quality vendors and high-quality, you know, backdrops and swag and and just a well-run show, then you're you're lucky you break even. Maybe you make a few, a few pennies, but I will say the the very best promoters who put so much of themselves into their shows, if they make anything, it goes back into the competitors, right? It's not nobody, I can promise you, nobody is not no promoters getting rich off of shows. And every really good promoter that I know is putting all of their money back into the show experience, and you can see it the next year because the venue is better and the backdrop is better, and this is better, and this is better, and this is better. And so, um, you know, though that those are the things that really make the difference, right? Like in my opinion, swag is fine. It's fine. I I have never once in my life done a done a show for swag. It's cool, it's cute, it's whatever. Um, the uh in my opinion, and then I want to hear from your your opinion, um, the most important things are quality vendors, and I am talking about your tanning. I am talking your and and I'm talking about your um polygraphs if your show has them. Um, your makeup, I am talking about the organization. I'm talking about the information you send out to your athletes ahead of time, um how um organized you are at check-in. I mean, all of the I know from a competitor perspective, you know, having the big flashy lights and backdrops and swag and all of that is super fun, right? Like that, that really makes an experience. But if you have that, but your tan sucks and they're running five hours behind and they're just grabbing people out of line, and there's no organization to it, there's no email sent ahead of time about how to prep your body, I have no fucking idea what I'm doing, everybody's running around like it's crazy. Um, you know, things like or disorganization the day of the show or a really shitty makeup job, and the makeup artists are, you know, two hours behind. And there is nothing more stressful for my at so as a coach, I know there's nothing more stressful for my athletes than I was supposed to have my makeup done two hours ago and I have to be on stage in five minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so there is nothing more stressful for an athlete than to be like, oh my God, like how am I, you know, they're slapping your face on as you're trying to pump up if you're even able to, right? And then you're trying to get your tan done and and so all of that. So those things are really, really important. So, you know, in terms of like quality for those vendors, right? Like you can't just hire any makeup artists off the street. They actually have to have experience with stage makeup, they actually um have to be professional and be able to be on time and and stay organized. And, you know, same thing with tanning, right? And so um those two things I can say are probably what stress my athletes out more than anything. Those are the things I get the biggest complaints about, especially if I'm not at a show with them to be able to um, you know, sort of calm their fears, more or less. But that's what I get the most complaints about. It's Friday before the show, and they've been standing in line to get a tan for three hours. My appointment was at X or or what's even worse is first come, first serve. What the fuck is that, right? Like for tanning. We had that this year too. First come, first serve for makeup too. It's like, wait, you can't do that. And so I get those, you know, losing their mind things, the day of the show, losing their mind things for tanning, and the same thing with makeup. And so that's those are kind of the I would honestly say those are the things that stick out the most as the biggest complaints from um from my athletes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent, because you you have to remember that you're still timing everything around what you're eating and when your next meal is. So timing is everything. And if you're walking into a show and it's completely unpredictable and you're gonna be all of a sudden, you know, you may maybe you were given a tan time. Maybe your tan time is 4'10 in the afternoon and you show up and it's 7 p.m., you're still waiting to be tanned. Well, but I was planning for 4'10 because then I got to go back up to my hotel room because I got my next meal that I've got to do, et cetera, et cetera. You're having to plan around and it's very, very stressful. And if you're doing OCB, what you've also got to contend with is you've got a polygraph time. Well, you don't necessarily want to go get a tan first and then do polygraph, which is gonna ruin part of your tan because you've been sitting too close to after you got tan. So now you're timing your poly, your tan, your food. Yep. And your hotel room also may or may not be available yet if you're checking in that same day, if they're doing a three or four pm check-in. So there's just a lot of stress that's involved there. And check-in itself also has got to be really, really smooth. There was the first show that I did this this year. I do not understand why they did this in the fall. They did check-in one competitor at a time, one at a time. So everybody stood outside in the lobby of the hotel. They had a teeny tiny little conference room that maybe could have fit like a you know, 10 people in it. They shut the door and it was one person at a time. And you came in and you just manually paid and registered all the way through for photography, for poly, etc. The each each competitor, it took them 15 minutes. Well, times 170 competitors at a show. I mean, that was worse than tanning that.

SPEAKER_00:

Wait, and didn't they make you like fill out bios and stuff too? Like it was literally like handwriting, hand paying for everything.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, you had to handwrite your bio right there, which I didn't bring my glasses with me. And when you are deprived of food, your vision tends to kind of go into the toilet for a little while, in addition to just being old.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I was gonna say, I don't know, I'm I eat plenty of food, I still can't see for shit.

SPEAKER_01:

But you know, you handwrite your bio, you're doing it in pencil, and then of course, on the day of the show, they ran out of time because they just packed too much in there. So the bios went out the window anyway. So that was kind of just a waste of time. But you know, first and foremost, back it up, back it up. You're registered for a show, you've paid for it, wonderful. You got everything that you need. Then as you start to get closer to the show, about that two-week period or so, you start to get the information from the vendors. So you'll get your tanning email, right? And that's gonna be like a gazillion pages long because there's a lot of prep for that. If they're a good tanner, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I wanted to let's just emphasize if they're a good tanner, because there are plenty of tanners that don't send out shit. Yes, and I will a hundred percent call out the good tanner. So yvette, a hundred percent, body beautiful bronzing, period. Hands that hands down, absolutely no one compares. And if you I mean that that's just it. There are some others that are okay, but there's literally no one that does a better job.

SPEAKER_01:

No, she is the best, she does what she says, her product does what it says, she's extremely precise. If you listen to exactly what she tells you to do, it works perfectly.

SPEAKER_00:

In her words, if you read her email and then read it again, and then read it again, you will have no problems.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, and she's right, and so so that comes out right just before the show. And then, of course, you get your ones from um, you get your email from from from your makeup, right? Um, and that's always different. I feel like every single time it's different, even though this year I took a picture of exactly what my ideal look was, the one that was done on me, and this is the makeup, and this is the hair. It doesn't matter. You could show the same picture to 10 different makeup artists and hairstylists, and you'll get 10 different looks. So it's fine. Um, but you know, you got to pay attention to that. Then you got to pay attention to that polygraph email that comes through too, because again, it's timing. It's like, what time am I gonna slime myself up for poly versus tanning, et cetera? So you already have that stress as a competitor, and that's just one show. So now imagine I did five. So imagine that across times five. And also, you know, my energy level, my short-term memory, because I'm I'm in a deficit. I'm a squirrel and a half anyway. Um, you got to write it all down, you got to coordinate, you got to make sure you're doing this and that and the other. So you get to the show, you're hungry, you know, you've gone through your peak week. Here it is, it's Friday night. That registration has got to be clean, it has got to be smooth. Move us through like a buffet. Move us through and go step one, step two. Now you're gonna go over here and see this person, that's your photographer, you're gonna do that, you're gonna go over here, you're gonna pick this up, boom, you know, and then you go on. Gotta flow. It's gotta flow easy. And I think you know, you're absolutely right when it comes to swag. You don't have to do a ton of giveaways, you don't, but the ones that you do just make it quality, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Don't give me a bunch of shit, don't give me a shit cotton t-shirt that doesn't fit anyone, and I wouldn't even want to wear it to bed. Oh, yes. I mean, there are just you know, it's there was there was I would rather have one high quality thing than a bunch of really shitty things.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that that's that's that's the thing, you know. Like we're not trick-or-treaters, we're not little kids with our little nap little sacks, you know, just looking for some Tootsie Rolls. It's it's I I was at a show and not Tootsie Rolls. That's not even a high quality candy. That's not even a pump-up candy. But I was at one shoe where they decided to use um Sheen or Timu, right, as their um product source. Oh, okay. Swag, right? So everything was just like the t-shirts, unfortunately, came in in like a toddler size two T. Like they were so tiny. I bet they were so small. This thing was so small, it was like a bralette with sleeves. I'm like, I can't do anything with it. I couldn't even put it on my dog, and my dog weighs 20 pounds. I thought that'd be really cute. My dog can promote the show. So that goes in the garbage, but so much will just go in the garbage. Like, I don't need a lunchbox that's got your, you know, um, your promotional name on the top. I'm never gonna use that. Like, and I mean a metal lunchbox, like the old tins that we used to take in 1985 to school. So you don't need to do that. You don't need to do a custom pen. You don't need to do um, it just it can just be really basic stuff. We want to wear your stuff. We want to promote, if it's a great show, a nice tank top, good material. Don't make it be that scratchy, horrible, awful cotton that I'm gonna wash my car with later. It's gotta be something you want to wear and wear again. Um, but the most important thing is again, going back to that experience, tanning. Tanning, tanning, tanning. You gotta have enough people at the show. And I feel like this is where some of the promoters sort of struggle because they put so much trust and faith in that vendor. And sometimes those vendors are looking at the best way, the most efficient way to do their service. And I'm not saying that they're trying to cut costs, but I know it's expensive, right? With solution and labor. But please don't tell us when we get there that you've got to tan 170 tanners and that, oh, we had eight tanners, but unfortunately six bailed. Please don't tell us that. Nope. That's the worst. That is the worst information to get. And then also don't tell us at 8:30 at night, after some people have been waiting now for three hours, that you've run out of solution and that you need to now go drive 90 minutes round trip to go get more. There have been people tanned up until the wee hours in in the morning, and they gotta be in stage in in in just a matter of hours. Yep. It's horrible. Like that's almost a guarantee your show's never gonna be done again.

SPEAKER_00:

If or I will say, even worse, is only tanning the day of the show, which I have seen some smaller shows do. So they tan you that morning, and like and it's I think I mentioned this before, it's first come, first served. So you know it's gonna be fucked up if they're not tanning you the day before, and they say it's first come, first serve. And listen, shit happens, equipment breaks, people bail. It's happened. And I'll use Yvette as an example again. It happens to her. People get sick, things get lost in transition, right? She's traveling all over the world doing these things, but she has a solid team of people behind her. She always has a backup plan, right? Like this isn't a I oh, this is my first time tanning. No, like this. Is not and and and I could even excuse it if it was somebody's first time tanning. But I have seen the same promoters and the same tanners be shitty for years. And there's no excuse, right? This is not your first show. This is not your first tanning event, right? Like that this it just that's inexcusable to me. I uh there are there are show promoters out there that should know better, and it's unfortunate because there's an I'm not gonna I'm not gonna badmouth a particular show. I will absolutely uplift the shows that I think are amazing. Um, but there's a show I've attended with clients um every year for the past three years, and my clients hate it, my I hate it, and we're not going back. And um the it's the client, they don't like the client experience. Tanning's always late, makeup's not great, communication is awful, it's always running late. They're still doing God, God bless America, full routines, 60 seconds apiece. There's 200 people in the fucking show, and so I'm I'm gonna put this out there right here and now, unless you've only got 50 people in your show, stop with that. Just seriously, stop it. Nobody cares. The athletes don't care, they want to eat, they want to go home. Nobody cares if they get 60 seconds or 10 seconds, to be honest. And if you do, then go do a smaller show that still allows you to do a full routine, right? But for if you want a high quality show, you want to get people in and out, let people get on stage 10, 20, 30 seconds max, get their pictures, hit three poses. Do not read a 20-page bio. Don't do that. A name and an age is fine. Hell, say where they're from. Cool. That's it. We don't need to thank God and everybody on the fucking planet. We know who we are. You know, I don't need to be thanked, I don't need any of that stuff. Um, but those are the kinds of things that drive people batshit crazy because you said women were going on at two and now it's four, because you just let all the men do 60 second routines or whatever the case is, and everything is just then it just backs up and backs up and backs up. And again, back to food timing. And I know, you know, you can't always predict, but this is not, these are not new promoters. This is this there is no excuse for this in my book that you don't know how to run a show on time, that you don't know how to keep your tanning on time, that you don't know how to communicate with your athletes when you've been doing this for years. Um, so yeah, you know, it does get to a point where you know, my clients like and I'm and it's not even me. They're like, Tina, I didn't I don't really like that show and do it again. And then it's been every single year. I'm like, I've had pro athletes, I've had amateur athletes, and they just don't want to do it anymore. So we don't I know we're talking about that show.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I know we're talking about the same show. And what's frustrating with me for me about that show is so there's there's there's shows that are also pre-qualifiers, right? That you've got to do in order to get to something else. Because each generation, if you want to do a specific show, like if you're a pro and you want to go to their pinnacle show of that year, you've got to have a qualifier ahead of that in that year, right? So this particular show is one of those. It's a qualifier, and it's right before a big giant show that everybody does. So you're almost forced to do it, unless you're in another city and you can find a qualifier closer to you. You're almost forced to do it. You're almost forced to do it in order to get to that really big show. That frustrates me because they know it and so they coast because of it. Yeah. And it's it's it's that show where, yeah, there's massive fanfare, there's these huge routines, they allow costumes for it. You can have custom music, which by the way, was a shit show because they couldn't match the right music with the right routine. So then the girls who are backstage dressed in their feathers or their cowgirl attire are so frustrated because they're going out there to music they didn't pick. So you're just adding additional pressure onto yourself as a promoter and you're creating additional frustration behind the scenes for the competitor. And also you're putting a lot of pressure too on that expediting staff because they're trying to like mitigate everything, right? In between front and back. It's it's horrible. And yeah, and yeah, you're you're set to go on at two o'clock, and the next thing you know, you're on a two and a half hour delay. I I didn't pack enough food for that. We nobody did.

SPEAKER_00:

So well, and you know, the for the coaches, the athletes, right? Like we're we're planning, and and I do, and I listen, I understand shit happens, right? There, there is not a show on this planet I have seen run 100% on time, and I get that, right? Like everything's an estimate, but we shouldn't be two, three hours off, right? 30 minutes, our tops, totally fair. Shit happens, but you know, you're trying to time things, right? Like, you know, we said bikini'd be on at five, and now it's eight. Yeah. How am I supposed to peak my athlete? We planned for five. Now it's eight. And they haven't, you know, bikini hasn't, we just finished with wellness, you know, whatever the case may be. Um, so yeah, it's, you know, it's that those are the kinds of things that are are frustrating, I think, from both a coach and an athlete's perspective, right? Like, I just don't think that those are those things are necessary or essential for a quality athlete experience. Um and then it's gonna, it's gonna kick, you know, kick you in the butt because then people are gonna be like, meh, that one's not really for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's um it's especially challenging to, you know, we there's there's there's a OCB has a tremendous amount of integrity, and I love, love, love competing with them because of the fact that when they say that we are natural, we are natural.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

You got polygraph before, and then if you if you make a placement, you've absolutely got urinalysis right after. That is really important to me as a competitor, especially, especially this season now that I've been through situations where you know I've had people who beat me pop and then I end up moving up into different places. But in this particular show, uh the urinalysis, we had to find the person. We had to find the person. Normally, when you are competing in a show and you're a prone, if you place first, second, or third, you are pulled from stage immediately by the that's what that's what you're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00:

I will tell you, I have heard because you know, you know, Eric expedites, Eric does urine tests, you know. My husband, so he, you know, he does a lot of this backstage stuff, so he has to sit in on the because they do a meeting before every show, right? Sully does a whole thing. Um, this is the OCB, and so all of the the expediters, urine people, the everybody involved in the backstage, you know, judges, everybody has to be in this meeting. And I, you know, because Eric's got it on speakerphone and I overhear it, right? And I so I know for a fact, and he'll he'll tell me, he's like, Oh no, he said it. They are so specific. Like he was a urine collector at one of the shows. I have to, and he tells people like, if you win, you are not, you you cannot go talk to anybody, you cannot touch anybody, you must come with me directly. And so, and Eric is there and he takes them backstage, and everybody wants to congratulate the person. And Eric's like, listen, I know you want to hug your friend, I know you want to hug your family member, I know you want to do everything. You this person cannot be touched, this person cannot be talked to. Let me get them back to to your analysis. That is actually how it's supposed to go, and the reason why is again that integrity, right? So we're trying, so it's like um what is it they call um in um you know, in crime scene investigation, right? What a chain of um oh, yeah, chain of evidence. Chain of evidence, right? Yeah, so that's what it is, right? If I if I grip if I grab you and I'm like, oh genny, and I give you a big hug, I might have just slipped you uh some urine, right? Like I might have just been, you know, like here, go because it has happened. This is not like I'm not making this up. This is why they they're saying they do what they do, right? So, and that that's why the chain of custody, that's what it's called.

SPEAKER_01:

Um custody.

SPEAKER_00:

So, you know, so yeah, no, you shouldn't have to go looking for the urine person. You also should not pass go and collect$200 on the way there, right? Like it this is in order for for that to, you know, that integrity to stick. And so, um, and then this is not OCB, but I will 1000% call out the federation that claims to be the most drug tested federation on the planet. They collect a drug testing fee from everybody and they don't actually drug test. Yeah, 100%. And I saw it. Oh, you were there, and I said you get drug tested at either of the shows, did you? Nope, no, no, no, no, no, no, but you sure did pay a drug testing fee, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01:

I did, I did, and I also I also overheard people backstage, not ladies, but men talking about various substances that they were cycling in and off on, yeah, right prior to the show. And I'm going in my mind going, This there, are you kidding me? Like this is the comp this is the federation that says if you pop, if we catch you, you're not only banned for life, but we put you on the wall of shame on our website. Yep, and they got a wall of shame. But in my head, I'm going, you literally have competitors that are openly talking about using this, that, and the other. Yeah, and these things but they don't drug test anyone, they don't drug test anyone, they have a 10-year policy too. They have one of the longest policies, right? That you cannot use, and they they claim to be underwater, and there's zero, zero, nope, um I have never had a client.

SPEAKER_00:

I because back in the day we used to support, you know, clients did this federation. I had a friend that promoted shows for them, and so I used to bring a team there, whatever. Pros, amateurs, I've never had a single client being drug tested, not once. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

No, and it's yeah, so that's that's on that. But on on OCB, because they've got their standards to a certain level. At that the shit show, I will call it the one that we're talking about, that is difficult to do, but you kind of have to do it because it's a qualifier. That one was particularly frustrating for me this year because when I got off stage, I'm like, where's where's where's the person to hold my hand to take me over to go do the pee-peees? Like, let's go, you know. I want to go pee pee. Where's my friends? Yes. Well, because for me, I get so I I know it's silly. I get so excited because I'm like, yes, you know what? Whatever I placed, first, second, third, yes. I'm so proud of being of being natural. And in this case, I had to hunt down the person. And then when I finally found them, that person became upset with me that I didn't find them sooner. And I said, I'm not supposed to find you, you're supposed to pay attention to who's placing and come up and get us because again, chain of custody, right? You're supposed to know where I'm going from center stage off the stage. Um, and then it was just a mess. Like, I'm, you know, I'm I'm unwrapping and I'm doing doing this and the other, whatever. I'm handling handling these cups, and like, I shouldn't be doing it this way. Like, you know, when you've done it enough times, you can see what the actual chain of command should be. So that was just all of it, but a bit of a mess. And I provided that feedback, I provide that feedback back to OCB. But it was also the same person doing your analysis that also did check-in that also did some tanning. So, you know, the other thing to be aware of is be careful as promoters, not to stretch yourselves too thin, yeah, because you cannot do everything well. You have to delegate properly and you need to make sure that for your own sake reliability, that you've got your buckets really, you know, kind of in the right spot. Um, and then it's the same same folks that apparently were in charge of photography. And I think what got me on that one was photography took about five or six weeks to come out because they were busy with other shows. And that was also the reason given to those competitors when they were asked, hey, when are photos going to be ready? Well, we're not sure yet. We've got these other shows that really take precedence and we'll sell you know after. And when you're paying for photos as the competitor, it's expensive, and you're paying for each show's photography. Well, if you're not gonna get me pictures until five or six weeks later, and my I may have already done another show at least or two by then, why do I want your pictures? Right. You know, because you start to kind of look at them and they're different photographers, and you're like, so it's just it's a matter of being quick and responsive in your in your communication ahead of the show that you've that the your your competitors registered for, being quick and responsive and efficient the day of registration, and then the next day when you're doing everything on stage to get your competitors on, off, and out. That's what they want to do. They're there, we're not there to be dancing monkeys, you know. We we really want to get out there, we want to pose, we want to perform, but I'm not interested in putting on feathers and you know, putting something to music for 60 seconds and then having to have further worry about my routine. I'm more thinking about my posing, my competitors who are really strong, and how they're, you know, it's so much effort. It's so much effort on that day. Uh, but then that takes us right to what shows are phenomenal. Like what have they shows are we like?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yes. Well, I'll I'll tell you my my favorite, my favorite promoters that I always support because I know my clients are going to have a good experience is the um the OCB Conquer, and now they have ones out in Vegas. I have no doubt they'll do an amazing job. But I'm specifically talking about the one here in Maryland, um with uh the Meekins with Frank and Aaron, um, and Bobby Cavino's shows, the Presidential Cup and the Chesapeake, always phenomenal shows. Um, Joe Franco always puts on a really nice quality production. I will say, you know, he he is sort of an old school dude and doesn't do a lot of swag and a lot of like fanfare and stuff, but you know what? It's always organized, it's always on time, he does a really solid job. Um, it's it is a really solid show. He has good venues, you know. Um, he's got a lot of experience doing it. So, you know, are his the fanciest? No, but I will absolutely do one of his shows any anytime because they're great, right? Um so yeah, Yvette, I have not actually been to one of Yvette shows, but I have had clients who do them. So the shows that Yvette Yvette promotes out in Arizona. Um uh I think she's got a couple, a handful of shows that she's promoting now. So not just doing tanning, but promoting my my uh athletes that have done her shows have said they have had like the most amazing experiences. So I can absolutely speak for her shows. Um I will say I had a client this year do a show in Idaho. I don't know this promoter, horrible experience. That's all I know. She said they played Halloween music for the stage walks. Oh it wasn't Halloween, it was November.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, it it was okay. Oh, so it's after.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. She said it was really weird to do her stagewalk to Monster Mash.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about that one. I'll have to say that post Monster Mash.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, and you know, I know it's a it's a little thing. This is a real minor thing, but you know, the little things matter, like the music, the background music, the house music, it does actually matter, right? Like, you know, some do a really good job with it. Some I'm like, yeah, at least, you know, at least gives me something to dance around to while I'm sitting in my seat for like 20 hours during the day. Yeah, you know what I mean? You know, so it's a little teeny small thing, but I mean, you know, maybe put some thought into it. Like it probably shouldn't be Halloween music. The music does, it does make a difference. It does. Um, so yeah, so those are my those are my those are my top yeah pick shows.

SPEAKER_01:

Britt Britt loved Joe Franco's show when he did it in Atlantic City. Um, it was it was such a great show. I mean, he's a really excellent promoter, he's a great coach, he puts out great content, and it it's not always about the frills, right? That kind of shows you right there. It's not, it's just the quality of the format and efficiency. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah, and the quality and the judges, too, is just there's some really great judges within the OCB, and I think that they're extremely fair. I think that there's a great consistency across the board as to what they're looking for. You know exactly what they want, um, you know what they don't want. Um, they're very clear and they're just consistent, you know, across the board with it.

SPEAKER_00:

And usually pretty good about getting feedback back too. So I will say that um I've, you know, I commend the OCB for for every year, always trying to, you know, it's a business in the true sense of the word. And and because I actually uh in my previous life actually did process improvement as a career, that's what I do. Like I'm a I'm an efficiency expert. That's actually what I did for a living in the government, um, which is sort of a not a thing. There is no efficiency in the government, so it's kind of funny, but that's why I don't do it anymore. But um, I commend them for always trying to make it better, right? So having seen the OCB grow over the last 20 years in the sport, and I and I see how they've tried to make the standards better, I see how they've tried to improve the standards of the judging, even all the way down to the how the judges provide feedback. I actually, you know, I've seen some shows where it's like one designated person gives feedback for each individual division, or maybe it's two people, and I think that's great because it kind of helps to not give you five different opinions of five different people. Um, so I think, you know, the way that they do those things is is really effective and efficient because, you know, just like with photography that you don't get till five or six weeks later, it does you zero good to get feedback from, you know, one show if your next show is in two weeks, and you don't get the feedback until five weeks later, right? There's like, so you know, if you've got a show in two weeks, you need your feedback pretty quickly, right? Or you know, whatever. Um, so yeah, so I do think that they've done a really good job um in that area and at least trying to make it more efficient and trying to make it more um streamlined, trying to make um the standards, you know, the best that they can in terms of you know that the judging of what they're looking for. So um those things all matter.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, no, they do, they do, and and I loved and appreciated so much um the Orton Cup and Bobby Covino show, of course. The OCP said Chesapeake, it was just awesome. That was awesome. That show. I think the judges were phenomenal. The feedback was everything was quick, everything was turned around so fast. That was the coolest thing about it. Yeah, not only not only was Check-in like just flawless, right? Tanning, flawless. It was phenomenal. Makeup was amazing, makeup and hair, which I gotta talk about that little bit there because if you're going in and you're looking at a show and then you got a makeup artist, and if you're if you're considering using a makeup artist, some ladies will do it themselves, totally fine. He you gotta ask their experience. You have to ask with stage makeup, with stage makeup, yes. Some of these uh third party vendor makeup artists, whatever, they've got to assemble the team, right? They don't necessarily have these people on the bench that are just ready to go, so they're gonna pull from the industry, maybe connect. Actions that they have. They might pull people off of the Sephora counter, you know, or somebody that works at Ulta or whatnot. That doesn't necessarily mean that that person knows how to do stage makeup. And I had the worst experience in Vegas where I was sitting in a chair. I had to be in there at 5 a.m. I didn't get out of that chair till 8.05. 9 a.m. was the uh competitor meeting for the show to start at 9:30. Yeah. At 8.05. And I looked like a clown. And that particular makeup artist, bless his heart, tried everything he could, but he was honest with me. He goes, I don't do stage makeup. I literally work at Sephora, but I was brought in to do this. And the head makeup artist who was contracted, right, actually said, she goes, Well, this particular show promoter just wanted too much in the sense that the percentage, right? So whatever I pay to her for makeup, X percent goes to the show promoter. She says, This particular promoter really pushed me for too much, and I had no choice. I had to pull whoever I could pull. So I'm going from person to person, chair to chair to chair, and guiding them to either go darker, lighter, et cetera. She must have come over to me no less than six times and kept telling my makeup artist, she's got to be darker. She's got to be darker. You know, this, that, and the other. And it shows in the photos. And it's really frustrating because the photos for that particular show with the video and with the highlight reel was like$500, right? That's a huge investment. And makeup and hair was$350. So at almost a thousand bucks,$850, I'm in for this look. And you can destroy it based on what you do in the makeup chair.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

And then obviously, and then with hair. So because we are doing our posing and we do have that little small bit of routine depending upon what category you're in, your hair's got to hold if you've got it up or half up. It's got to hold. If it falls apart halfway through, you know, it's just that additional, it's just screws up the photo. So you got to ask your makeup artist when you're registering for a show and you get that person's information. What's the level of experience of the person? Send that makeup artist um a picture of what you're looking for. Here's my inspo. Look, hair, face. It's got to be this. And be your own advocate when you're sitting in that chair. Do not be oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Don't be afraid. No, don't be afraid to say something. Um a hundred percent. And so I will I will go out and say, you know, in my experience, hands down, the the best makeup artist and team is Maliki. Hands down. Point blank, period. Makeup and hair. Her sister, um, you know, so whatever it's her and her sister and whoever else they bring on, um, you know, team-wise, like, you know, and it's always quality, always, always, always and on time. On time. Yep. Right. And so, or as on time as anything can be in one of these shows, right? That no matter what, there's always a hurry up and wait, right? So there's just that's just an element of it, it's just what it is. But um, and again, quality communications before the show, communications throughout the show, not hard to find her, right? She even brings in somebody else to do all the money and the scheduling, right? She's got somebody else with a clipboard and and making sure that they're they're paid. And so she's doing makeup and you know, and she's got her whole little team. And so, again, you know, that kind of quality matters. You can't just pull people in off the street because they know how to do makeup at the Sephora counter, um, just so that you can make money. But that particular federation that you're talking about, that is that is exactly everything is about making money, and there's no, there's just no integrity or or anything else, right? They're just slimy. So um, were there any other really great, well-run shows that we didn't mention that you did that I might have forgotten about?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, you talked Conquer, which I did the year before, which I've done a couple of times. I love Conquer.

SPEAKER_00:

I'll always do it.

SPEAKER_01:

And they're Vegas shows, they're brand new. Everybody should do them. I'm sure they're gonna be amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

If the meekans are doing them, they're they're going to be amazing. I would trust, you know, anything that they're doing. Um, I would trust anything that Marjorie Thrash is doing. Her Richmond, oh, I just had a client do her Richmond show. Absolutely. I I don't want to forget about Marjorie shows. Hands down, fantastic shows. Uh, we've done the the body sculpting open in February. I don't do that one super often because I don't usually have clients that want to compete that early in the year. That's another really quality show. Um, and I've heard really good things about Marjorie's show in um June, too. Why do I always forget that one? Um, I forget the name of that one, but it's also in that, it's also in that Williamsburg area. I think it's in June. Um, so Marjorie's a great promoter. Uh Sully is a great promoter. He's another, so his shows are always um, God, I shouldn't, I can't forget him. Like his OCB Spirit of America. If anybody ever has the opportunity to do that show, it is near and dear to my heart. Eric and I used to go and do that show as a team. Uh or I mean we used to go up there and do that show as a team. Eric Sully was like our first coach, or the first one I'll admit, I had. I didn't, I don't, I don't claim the first, the very first coach I had um 20 years ago. And so we've we Sully became a really good friend. We've stayed at his house, we've, you know, um with his his wife at the time. Um, you know, they they brought we all flew up there and helped him with a show, right? And we all stayed at his house. We were sleeping on the floor and we were doing all these things. So the OCB Spirit of America is a fantastic show, it's been going on forever. Um, so I would do any of his shows, any Sully shows, any Franco shows, any Meekin show, um, any Cavino show, any Marjorie Thrash show, any Yvette show. I can a thousand percent send clients to those shows and know they're gonna have a quality experience. And it's not just the promoter. I know those promoters aren't gonna have shitty makeup vendors, they're not gonna have shitty tanning vendors. They're, you know, and some of those folks actually do their own tanning. So I know the Meekins do their own tanning, and I don't normally like shows that do that, but I also know that uh Franco's wife does tanning for their shows. But I've seen the quality and it's fantastic. And so those are the ones that, you know, as a coach, if I have a client that wants to do one of those shows, I can easily say, I'm not worried about you doing the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Like because they care, they they really freaking care about the people that are doing their shows. And you're right, Aaron Meekins can make a can deliver a great tan, by the way. Absolutely. I think she's done my tanks twice, and they really, really care. You know, they have they have their gym, Frank's Fitness, and I think that's a big part of it. I think when they've got something like that that they're using as a promotional engine to do these OCB shows, it it there's a tremendous investment of reputation that's there. So they're so incredibly solid with that. And with Sully, what I loved so much about the Yorton Cup, and this is my first experience doing Yorton, but afterwards he sent out a feedback request asking, what could we do better? What can we do this? It's the first time I've seen one come from a promoter, and I appreciated it so freaking much.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's what I'm talking about from a business perspective. When Brandy and I were promoting shows, always sent out a feedback form because that's what you do as a business, right? This is a business, period. I want to know what you thought about my vendors, like actual vendors, tables and like, you know, things, people selling their wares. I want to know what you thought about check-in. I want to know what you thought about the the the stage and the venue and the this and the that. Um, and so we absolutely sent feedback out, you know, and we sent it to everybody, not just the athletes. We sent it because, you know, people who bought tickets ahead of time, they bought them through our system. We had their emails, right? So people who just came to attend, we sent our feedback form to everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That we had an email for.

SPEAKER_01:

It means so much to us. It means so much to us to be able to have that. And even the makeup artists from Yorton sent out a feedback request, which I thought was phenomenal because nothing goes perfect. Nothing goes perfect, no matter how well you organize. And um, and there was a real time crunch that day because Yorton was massive. I mean, it's it's the pinnacle, it's it's the Super Bowl bodybuilding for natural. So, you know, it was it just means a lot to be able to do that because then it also any of the hiccups that that do occur, it softens it for us as competitors after and suffer that, yes, as opposed to just being bitter bitches like I was about my first show on this year.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, but you know, but we all were, but it matters, but those things matter, right? If you say we are so sorry that we were behind this, that, and the other thing, right? Like it those admitting your faults, admitting mistakes, saying, you know, we wish we could have done this better, or how can we make this better? It all matters. And so if you're a newish promoter or even a promoter that's been doing it forever and you haven't bothered to take people's feedback or make any changes, these are the things that that matter, you know. Um, I will also say that the bigger these shows get, and I'm so I'm always so happy that these promoters are getting their shows are getting bigger. Look, Bobby's the first one. I love Bobby, he's actually a really good friend. And at Chesapeake, and I was so excited that you know it has this Masters Nationals, and he had like, I don't even know, 200 people. I don't know, but I was like, You should have seen both of us backstage. I said, Bobby, we're we're gonna die. Like, we're we're we're just gonna die here. Like this show is gonna go on forever, right? Like, I was like, you know, we're so we would pass each other, be like, we're just gonna die. It's just funny because we know because Bobby is really good. Like every Chesapeake, I'm like, what time are we getting out? He said, five o'clock. I said, I don't believe you. And every time he'd be like, We're done at five o'clock, and we're walking out the door. And I'm, you know, when they get that big, and and Frank and Aaron did the same thing. I remember the year that um Conquer was so big, it was like 225 people. That backstage, I love their venue, but the backstage is small. And I was like, I was like, dude, I was like, you're killing me. Like it is like you're like packed in like sardines. This is like it's starting to get uncomfortable. And they took the feedback, they knew they had to make it a two-day event. And I know that they're doing this, and they did that, and thank you, baby Jesus, right? Because now the men can be comfortable, the women can be comfortable, and nobody's there until fucking midnight, right? And bikini isn't going on at eight o'clock at night, and every and yes, it's hard to manage a two-day show. It is hard for everybody, but it is going to be much worse off if you try to slam 250 people. And Norton Cup did the same thing, right? Like it was always a one-day show. They used to have amateurs, they realized they were getting too big, and they're like, right? So they're just like, we can't do this and still provide a quality experience for the athletes. And so I understand it it's challenging to have a two-day event um for everybody involved. But it for your if you're really looking at the athlete experience, those things matter, right? And and coaches, right? Like I, you know, yeah, I don't want to be at a show for 20 hours. I I just don't, right? Like it's um nobody does. The athletes don't, the coaches don't, promoters, you know, it's your job because it's your show, but you know, um, so I'm glad that they're they're doing that and they're taking the feedback and they're seeing and they're making like, you know, you got 250 people, you can't do it in a day. And if you do, you're really making things hard for everybody.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And and I we have to give a big shout out to the expeditors that are really back there because, like, whenever I see like Donald Graves, for example, Showtime, right? Whenever you see Showtime, I'm always like, it's a giant relief. Um, and and not just him, but like you got the funky five-footer who was there, you know, at the back of Yorton and and other great people and competitors. You've got competitors who just recently competed who you know, the OCB and a lot of these organizations are run largely by volunteer support because of the love of the support of the sport. You got a lot of people that are back there, but the expediters work so hard. I mean, they're on their feet, they're running around, they're coordinating people, they're screaming at the top of their lungs because they have to be heard, because they're looking for this series of competitor numbers that needs to be waiting in the wings on deck. Yeah, you know, and prepping the ones that are on the stairs and then going back and forth. It is such an endeavor. It is such, it's just amazing to sort of sit back and just kind of watch it. Um, but the the I can't I the way I sort of want to close out talking about some of these shows and the competition experience is these promoters have to deal sometimes with very difficult controversy. It is really hard to do everything that you're doing and put your reputation and everything that you have on the line. And you do this phenomenal show, and you just finished out and like, you know, big shows, 200, 200 competitors, and then the drug tests come back and somebody's pops.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

It is so hard to try to work through that because you know, there's there's a period of time where I'm sure that that particular athlete wants to contest whatever the results are, and it's expensive. These lab tests are expensive. But then in addition to that, you know, even if it becomes a point of past contention where it's like, nope, sorry, you're disqualified. Now, as a promoter, you've got to go notify the other places that second is now first, third is now second, et cetera, et cetera. And there's it's it's hard. I mean, that conversation, I'm sure, like when Bobby called me, was a hard one for him to have. It was hard for me to receive because part of you as a as a competitor, you're excited that now all of a sudden I actually won Masters Nationals, not second. Wonderful. But then I also missed out on those stage shows.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that the moment you missed out on your moment on stage.

SPEAKER_01:

You miss out on the moment, and it tests you as an athlete and as a human being because you really have to ask yourself the question well, but what did I do this for? Did I do this for vanity and for my own sake and for my selfishness here for the because this is what I want to have? You know, like what did I do this for? Did I do it for the journey? And it honestly, you did it for all of it, right? You do it for all of it. You have to be honest with yourself. You don't work this hard without wanting to win and get to a point where you can have a photo on the wall that someday your kids, grandkids can look at and go, oh my God, that was you. Yeah, you know, so you want to have that. You want to have the belt, you want to have the trophy, you want to have all that. Um, so you kind of go back and forth. But at the same time, this season was a great way for me to sort of teach my daughter that look, you can do everything in life correctly. Everything. And that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a guarantee that it's going to work out perfectly for you. You're going to be faced with issues, and you just have to rise above it and realize that it's a challenge and lean back on your discipline of uh and integrity and just go, I'm moving on.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm moving on. Because shit happens. And like I always tell people, life's not fair, get a helmet.

unknown:

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

Life is not fair.

SPEAKER_00:

It's not, it's not like I have a client that just wouldn't stop talking about fairness, fairness. This isn't fair, fair, fair. And I'm just like, I I mean, I aside from therapy, like I don't know what to tell you, right? Like, life literally, life is not fair. There is nothing I can do that to to even make to even pretend like this is fair, right? Like, I you know, like it's like but I what I always told my kid, life's not fair, get a helmet. Sorry, like suck it up, buttercup. This is what we're doing. This is the ride of this is the ride of life. And um no, those things weren't fair. It wasn't fair that somebody didn't, you know, do what they were supposed to do. It wasn't fair that somebody didn't have the integrity they were supposed to have, but it's it is right. But those are the moments that that challenge all of us, right? It's in those unfair life moments that we learn and we grow and we become better humans and athletes and moms and dads and and all of those things, right? It's it's in the it's in how we handle those situations. Um, you know, and you know, yeah, I mean it that's that's just all you can do. You can get out on social media and start blasting people and burn all your bridges, and that's just dumb, right? This is a really small, you know, it's it's getting bigger, but it's still a very small community, and people will know and people will find out. And social media is not the place to go air all your grievances, right? Not if you intend to um be a professional and maintain relationships and you know, do the things that you you need to do in the sport, right? Like I have been treated unfairly a thousand times in the last 20 years, whether it's from an athlete on stage or having people trying to poach my clients backstage, and then I hear about it, you know, later. Could I go blasting people all over social media? Uh yeah, but what would be how does that make me look, right? Like that's that's not gonna make anybody else look bad. That's just gonna make me look bad, and so you know, um, an older wiser version, a younger version of me might have done that. An older wiser version of me just says, you know, we just move on, right? I either address it or I don't address it because it's worth it or it's not, and then we move on.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's that's all you can do, and you just have to keep moving forward, and that's why I love doing multiple shows because you there is there's never one that's the same. It just the same experience is always slightly different, yeah. And the competitors can also change. I mean, this past season I had the pleasure of competing with some of the same ladies, which is amazing because it really helps you chase each other and push each other, which is phenomenal. Um, so I mean, overall, it was still fantastic. I know unfortunately Yorton had some controversy too, but they handled it, in my opinion, very well and as well as can be expected, because it's such a delicate and sensitive topic. It is, but they are the only federation that will truly tackle it head on, if you really think about it, even if it's a little messy, yeah, they still are the only freaking ones that will.

SPEAKER_00:

They will at least admit that this happened and without, and also without blasting and you know, putting people's, you know, because we are still dealing with people's lives, right? And reputation. So a wall of shame is not necessary. Um, blasting somebody's name all over social media is not necessary. Um, you know, enough of that information gets out, and so you know, we're still dealing with human beings that may have made a mistake or, you know, whatever. Um, so you know, I appreciate that they they walk that line, right? That of making sure that it's done, but it's done well and respectfully, if that makes sense. Um and so, and I've been on the other end of that phone call, um, not as an athlete, but as a coach, and I was just and I heard the person's voice. Like I was the, you know, the the the their drug testing guy, and I was just like, this feels really icky and awful. And I and I felt bad that they had to go through it. And um, you know, for one of my athletes, this was a while back, but you know, it's it sucks.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it does, but we still love the sport, we love it, we love it, and we do it naturally as long as we possibly possibly can, and that's the fun of it. Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

So so take, you know, so well, I don't know, maybe we kept this to an hour. Who knows, Jenny? I think we're close. Um we have we always have high hopes of like under an hour, 30 minutes. We're like, we'll see what happens. Um, so anyway, take this information for what it's worth. There's probably a ton of great promoters out there we didn't mention, and that is this. I I can only speak to shows that my athletes have competed in, right? So if my athletes haven't competed in your show, it's I'm I'm not not mentioning you, I just don't know. Um repeatedly competed in.

SPEAKER_01:

So there's a consistency pattern there that you can speak to.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And so, you know, choose your shows wisely, choose your federations wily, wisely, make sure you know what you're getting into. If there's any promoters or anybody who actually gives a fuck and listens to my podcast, you know, maybe take some of the feedback. Maybe don't. Maybe keep doing whatever you're doing because you think it works for you. That's fine by me, right? Like you got, you know, do you do you boo. That's what I say, you know, and the rest will fall where it's supposed to. Um, but uh yeah, do you have anything else you want to add before we close off? I got nothing else. All right. Well, um, oh, and just for everybody, because I don't think we actually mentioned this, the goal is that we're trying to release one of these every other week on Monday. Um, and so our then you guys won't get this one. There's no point in saying this right now because I can't say when the next one will come out because this one won't come out till after it. But anyway, every other week on Mondays, that's the plan. So subscribe and if you want to keep listening, we have a lot more fun topics um to discuss, I think. Um if you've got a topic, throw it out there, yeah, throw it out there for us. Feel free to shoot it over to Jenny or myself, and we're we're happy to address it. Um, but outside of that, don't get weird. Use your head, use your head, it will all be okay. It really will. Yeah, and remember life's not fair. Get a helmet. Ever. Get a helmet. Just wear a helmet.